THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM COMBINATION GUNS AND DRILLINGS FORUM

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Combination Guns & Drillings & Humble Pie!
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Picture of Charlie64
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Happy Monday, Happy Easter week and lets all stay healthy!

Sitting in a small Kanzel at the weekend in our concession here in Germany, got me thinking about Drillings and combination guns.

So many years ago when I did my German hunting exams (Green Diploma / Grune Abi as they term it here), a lot of course time was spent learning about combination guns and Drillings and safe handling.

Coming from an Anglo Saxon hunting world, to me, when you go out hunting it was to target a particular species and you took the rifle or shotgun for the job - a stalking rifle in the hills for red deer, a .243 or similar for early roe, the 12 bore for pigeon and so on. You get my drift. In golfing terms you took the driver to the range and practiced tee shots or the putter to the green and worked on your putting.

The Drilling seemed to me to be a rifle for someone who was an opportunist or did not know what he was after. Someone who took his whole golf bag to the range.

Nope, not my gun. Me, I am the sort of guy who goes out with a target in mind. Focused and one aim. Nope a Drilling was not for me. I never wanted one and had no interest in buying one.

Until now .......

On recent trips out to the concession and evening and night sits over maize baits, I have seen and observed countless roe deer (small / medium caliber rifle), pigs (larger caliber), badgers and foxes (shot gun / small caliber rifle), crows and other pests (shotgun / Klein Kaliber .22 lfb) and hares and rabbit (shotgun) and I quickly realised that providing the game is legal and in season, I maybe would be missing out if I did not have the right tool for the job in my hands. Sure you can shoot a fox with a 9,3 or a 8x68, but you are going to put a bigger hole in Charlie than you would with say a .222 or number 4 shotgun load. Same goes for corvids and other small game.

Nope, I would need to go 'Combination' if I am not going to miss out!

And so I have started looking and searching the websites for a combination gun!

I have my eyes on a 1963 Krieghoff Bockbüchsflinte / Combination in .222 Rem under a 20 bore at the moment. A sweet rifle shotgun combination that would cover most bases for me in my new hunting world. My wife suggested that I take a rifle and a shotgun with me when I go out and put one in each corner of the stand. No need to buy another rifle. Practical female logic! But somehow not quite right.

No. I think that I need to eat a very large slice of humble pie and apologise to all those hunters that I thought were unfocussed opportunists all those years ago and then I need to go out (or stay in and go online) and buy that combination gun and join the ranks of European and other nationalities of allrounders and become a Combination Gun owner and hunter!

And BTW there is also a very sweet Sauer & Sohn Drilling in 7x57 by 16 with a Schmidt & Bender glass on it that looks real pretty and would also be a suitable Kanzel combination gun!

I fear I know where this will end!

Charlie

.


"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
 
Posts: 1705 | Location: South Africa & Europe | Registered: 10 February 2014Reply With Quote
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I would really suggest a Drilling, and the prices have really dropped. I’ve been hunting drilling’s since 2001. I love the JP Sauer I have / 12x12x9.3/72. I had the chokes opened up to cylinder Bore for both grouse hunting and to safely shoot slugs. Mine is the sidelock Sauer. If you can find one at a good price, go for it.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Ruger M77 Full Stock .22-250
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1802 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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If you are not going to hunt small game then a combination gun is a good choice. I would opt for the 7x57R in any case. It will not tear up roe deer but will easily anchor any hog out there.

But, I prefer alloy framed drillings. With 25" barrels, they weigh well under 7lbs..so they carry well for a day afield. The longer barrels swing better for shooting small game. Don't let anyone tell you that the alloy action is not reliable, unless you plan on putting more than 20,000 rounds through the gun. Eeven then they can be tightened like any other gun. 20 bore drillings are generally heavier than 16 because most are in 20 mag requiring heavier construction for higher proof requirements.

The 16 gauge alloy drilling with 7x57R AND the Swedish safety would be the ideal way to go...IMO....with a 1,5-6x42 scope on top.

No matter what...good luck.
 
Posts: 1135 | Location: MN and ND | Registered: 11 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Just me but I had a 12 ga over 222 and sold it as I used my 12 ga over 7x57R a lot more. The 7x57R has taken lots of deer and antelope out to 300 yds. and with a 12 ga slug in the shotgun barrel it has functioned as a short range double on deer and bear.

If you really want a small bore (22) combination you could always get an insert for the 12 ga barrel.

I now have several and find the 17 HMR the most usefull with the 22LR second if you are in an area with small mammals.

For forest grouse hunting where the shots are very close and often at sitting birds I've found that 410 nad 28 ga reducers work perfectly.

Frankly, a drilling would be the best overall and I might have to get one one of these days. I'd prefer a 20 over 7x57R but a 12 ga would probably be considerably less expensive. One shotgun barrel I'd leave as a shotgun the other I'd put in an insert, again 22LR would be great for rabbits and such, 17 HMR would be my choice if fox was on the ticket as well. Or you could go all the way and get a 22 Hornet or even another 7x57R insert if the action will hold it.
 
Posts: 763 | Location: Montana | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Gentlemen you are missing the best combination gun for the all around use for multi game walk about hunting. Germany is a perfect place to find this perfect hunting gun. I'm referring to a CAPE GUN!

The cape gun is a side by side double barreled rifle, shotgun combination. This is called a cape gun because they were the favorite arm of the settlers on the Cape of GoodHope in south Africa, and the German position of Namibia.

The only problem with these is most were 16 ga shot on the left barrel, and one of the 9.3 chamberings on the right barrel. However, I have taken everything from jack rabbits to black bear with my 16 ga /8/57/JR H. Berrela Cape gun made in Germany. It is a side by side with exposed hammer locks with a set trigger on the right rifle barrel and I had the very tight choke opened up so I could use Breneke slugs and it still patterns perfectly for birds, but with the slugs it becomes a double rifle prenting the slug right beside the rifle on the target at 100 yds.
I have two cape guns but the Berrela is my go-to gun for shooting from a blind for bear or walk about for deer hunting for a mixed bag.

I've been thinking about buying a 28 ga double and having the right barrel cut back, and mono-blocked fitted with a 218 BEE barrel, or a 410 ga/22mag barrel. That would make a very light cape gun for a walk about for mixed game as well!

…………………………………………………… Just a thought! oldMacD37


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14571 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I have a sauer cape gun in 16 gauge/7x57r.

It is a neat gun but I would rather have a drilling with a 22 mag insert if I could just have 1 gun. (assuming you could get the insert sighted in and consistent)
 
Posts: 26 | Registered: 08 October 2018Reply With Quote
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While I respect Duggaboy's experience and expertise (both of which eclipse mine), I personally find my Sauer Drilling in 7x57R and 16 with a full length insert in 5.6x50R in the right barrel that i can remove and replace with my 22 WRM Einstecklauf to be more versatile than my O/U or any of the cape guns I've owned.
I haven't killed much with it, as it came to me late in life when I've come to the time when I only take a couple deer each year, but it goes with me for woods walks regularly. Where i live, you can't use center fire rifles, so ive obtained permission from the local Conservation guys to carry it with the 22 mag insert as long as I have no center fire ammo on me or in my truck. When I'm where center fire is allowed, the 5.6 barrel is in so I have a varmint rifle, a shotgun and a big game cartridge in. Pretty good for everything, even Jumbo by some accounts. Having met elephants in the bush, I would feel tremendously undergunned. I'd rather have Mac's x74 and even then id probably be walking backwards to toward the bakkie.
Bfly


Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends.
 
Posts: 1172 | Location: Lake Nice, VA | Registered: 15 March 2005Reply With Quote
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I'm still convinced that one shotgun and one rifle barrel can do it all if you're a reloader--the "mouse fart" loads in the rifle, if it's an 8mm or smaller, can match nearly any small game caliber if loaded properly FOR YOUR RIFLE. Some say that there's too much "Kentucky windage" required to shoot a subspeed round with the primary rifle sights, but let's face it: you've got one set of sights anyway, and a 22LR or 22mag doesn't have the same trajectory as your 7x57R, 8x57R, 9.3x74r or whatever. Short bullets take less spin to stabilize than long ones, making a lighter (let's say 85gr) bullet at a lower speed stabilize about as well as a 170 in your 7mm or 8mm. Ain't it lucky that ballistics work that way?
windy
 
Posts: 39 | Location: far from God's country | Registered: 14 February 2008Reply With Quote
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My experience over the last 12 years with my combination gun, is that its a really nice gun to use. Shotgun is useful and have shot foxes, duck, phaesant and woodcock with it. Rifle barrel in 7x65r has accounted for plenty of foxes, roe, red and wild boar. I have an einstecklauf in 7x65r so i have a double rifle for driven. I haven’t had any complaints from foxes being hit with a 7mm bullet.

There was a good article in Double Gun Journal a few years back. The gentleman had a 7x57r combination and he developed a lead bullet fueled by trail boss load that replicated the ballistics of an old rook rifle. 120 grain lead bullet at 1,000 fps. Ideal for rabbit sized targets up to 60 to 70 yards, and he got them to shoot to point of aim at c50 yards or so.


If i could get 16 bore slugs in Scotland and get them on my licence, i would probably have just kept with slugs as a back up shot on driven boar. But here the law is that 12 bore slugs are lawful on deer, slugs require authorisation to possess and police would rather grant permission for a rifle than to use slugs in a shotgun.
 
Posts: 822 | Location: Scotland | Registered: 28 February 2011Reply With Quote
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I have three combo guns:

1. Blaser BBF 7x57R and 12/76
2. Sauer 3000 drilling 7x65R 12/70 with kreighoff einstecklauf 22 mag
3. Blaser BD14 bockdrilling 308/222/20g


I literally have hundreds of youtube videos hunting, rabbits, hares, foxes, ducks, sambar deer, fallow deer.

But if you had to push me Id go with BBF97 because of weight is the lightest.
 
Posts: 153 | Registered: 24 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Posts: 153 | Registered: 24 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Posts: 153 | Registered: 24 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Is there such a thing as a decent combination gun for around $3000 that would be suitable for deer and elk plus a few birds? Ideally I would like to find a 7x65 with a 20 or 28 ga. Thanks.
 
Posts: 609 | Registered: 03 January 2004Reply With Quote
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In $US? I think a second hand Blaser BBF97 with a 7x65R/20G is the ticket.
 
Posts: 153 | Registered: 24 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Sauer Model 54////there being given away on the used market in Germany right now.
 
Posts: 1135 | Location: MN and ND | Registered: 11 June 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Dale:
Is there such a thing as a decent combination gun for around $3000 that would be suitable for deer and elk plus a few birds? Ideally I would like to find a 7x65 with a 20 or 28 ga. Thanks.


Krieghoff Ultra 20, but pricey.


TomP

Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right.

Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906)
 
Posts: 12538 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
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My experience with combination guns have been a Tikka m69 in 12-222rem i used it for most of my hunting exept moose in my young years i tryed both a low magnification scope and a Red dot sight , many Swedish hunters (Tikka m69-m77)use them for hunting birds in top of trees with barking dogs (~20-120m)they are accurate enough for winter black grouse in top of trees too(~200m max). I also had a Brno 500.2 in 12-6,5*55 for mixed game hunting by dog shot roedeers and a fallow deer.
 
Posts: 3483 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 02 May 2009Reply With Quote
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