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Cogswell & Harrison Combination Gun - 16 ga x 375 NE -2-1/2"
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Cogswell & Harrison Combination Gun - 16 ga x 375 NE 2-1/2"

Hello All,

I just returned from the Great Northern Side-by-Side Classic in Medford, Wisconsin. Although I don't participate in the competition, I always attend the event because they have lots of interesting guns for sale. Kirby comes all the way from Washington. Here's a shout-out for him. A wonderful man and a pleasure to deal with.

Here's one I couldn't resist. A Father's Day present to myself. Its a Cogswell & Harrison Cape Gun in 16 gauge by 375 NE 2-1/2".

Specs are: 25-1/4" bbl - 14-1/2" LOP - 8 lbs 1-1/2 oz - Ejectors

This is my second Cape Gun bought from Kirby. The first was a Franz Thiele of Teplitz (Czech - Austria Hungary) in 16 gauge by 8x72R, http://forums.accuratereloadin...5105333/m/2081053452 but I've never had one of these with a Big Game caliber.

I've called C&H for history. Hopefully I should hear back next week.

As always, your comments are welcome.



















" .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... "

How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon

How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar
 
Posts: 1667 | Location: Whitetail Country - Wisconsin | Registered: 28 September 2013Reply With Quote
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Looks interesting. Disk set striker on rifle barrel, whereas a normal lower end boxlock with integral pin on hammer for shotgun barrel. Suggest that this started life as a 16 bore double and the converted to a Cape gun. May well have done from new with Cogswell buying in a trade 16 bore in the white and then doing the work for somebody going to India or Africa.

In the early years of last century most gunmakers bought in trade built barrelled actions or even near finished guns.
 
Posts: 822 | Location: Scotland | Registered: 28 February 2011Reply With Quote
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You definetely seem to be cornering the market on unusual English guns! I am normally not a big fan of combination guns, but that one is a winner. Great rifle cartridge. Lee.


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Posts: 2157 | Location: Houston, TX. | Registered: 18 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Hello Heym SR20,
Hello lee440,

Thanks for the reply.

I finally received the information about my combination gun from Cogswell and Harrison. The gun is early 105 years old. All its features are confirmed as original. It is interesting to see there was an error in the original ledger entry from 1914. Obviously the ledger writer was a clerk that was not very knowledgeable about rifle calibers. He transposed the 4 & the 7, when he listed the load as 70g cordite 240g bullet. This was corrected in the certificate because the gun's load of 40g cordite 270g bullet is clearly marked correctly in 2 places on the gun's barrel. A knowledgeable clerk would have known that it is impossible to get 70g of cordite into a 375NE 2-1/2" case. Also of interest are the 2 notes in the original ledger that weren't mentioned in the certificate. The note near the top reads; "similar in appearance to T124 375 dbl" and the note at the bottom reads; "non engraved". Now I'm going to research J.C.Dragton to see if he was anyone special to have ordered such a special gun.

Today I tested the rifle barrel and had remarkable success as witnessed by the target below.

I haven't fired the 16ga shotgun barrel as of yet. Based on the pellet count listed in the ledger as 137, that density would equal a tight modified, nearing improved modified. One ounce of no. 6 shot contains 225 pellets , so 137 would be 61%, the high side of modified. The barrel's choke measures about .020 which would be modified.

All-in-all, this is going to be a fun hunting gun this fall.





" .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... "

How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon

How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar
 
Posts: 1667 | Location: Whitetail Country - Wisconsin | Registered: 28 September 2013Reply With Quote
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Thats really interesting history. If only these old guns could talk. And where else would you use a tool made 100 plus years and its still just as effective as the day it was made.
 
Posts: 822 | Location: Scotland | Registered: 28 February 2011Reply With Quote
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What a dream gun and history ! Happy for you. I would have been all over that too. Great find !

Congratulations and thanks for sharing. A Cogswell classic!

My guess would be India and military at 40 guineas or £ 42/- Maybe a junior officer. Any senior Army officer would have taken a double and a pair of shotguns and serious Africa hunter would have gone for a double too. Just guessing.

Thanks for sharing and if you ever think about selling it ......

Cheers

.


"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
 
Posts: 1705 | Location: South Africa & Europe | Registered: 10 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Mr Stix

Again, you have that ability to show up with something wonderful and interesting.

Maybe l should spend more time looking through Holt's auction site.... Who knows, maybe l'll find a nice little woodland Roe stalking gun such as this.
 
Posts: 186 | Location: Misplaced Yorkshireman | Registered: 21 March 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Thats really interesting history. If only these old guns could talk. And where else would you use a tool made 100 plus years and its still just as effective as the day it was made.

Hello Heym SR20.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, 105 years old and still working great.

quote:
Originally posted by Charlie64:
What a dream gun and history ! Happy for you. I would have been all over that too. Great find !

Congratulations and thanks for sharing. A Cogswell classic!

My guess would be India and military at 40 guineas or £ 42/- Maybe a junior officer. Any senior Army officer would have taken a double and a pair of shotguns and serious Africa hunter would have gone for a double too. Just guessing.

Thanks for sharing and if you ever think about selling it ......

Cheers

Hello Charlie64.

Thanks for the reply.

I'll keep you in mind for a future sale, but you'd have to come to the U.S. to get it.

quote:
Originally posted by Ratwhiskers:
Mr Stix

Again, you have that ability to show up with something wonderful and interesting.

Maybe l should spend more time looking through Holt's auction site.... Who knows, maybe l'll find a nice little woodland Roe stalking gun such as this.


Hello Ratwhiskers.

Thanks for the reply.

I've always had a eye for something different and this one fit.


" .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... "

How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon

How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar
 
Posts: 1667 | Location: Whitetail Country - Wisconsin | Registered: 28 September 2013Reply With Quote
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My wife and I have just done a little family history research on your Mr. J. C. Dragton, and come up with nothing, so far. He did not die during the First (or Second) World War.

Also he does not appear on the 1911 or 1901 British Census. The surname is very unusual - or could it be Drayton, which is a normal surname here.

He could be Scottish because those records are held separately, but I think not. All the Dragtons that we could see came from the Midlands just north of Birmingham, England.

We will continue to think about it.....

HB
 
Posts: 68 | Location: Olde England | Registered: 03 May 2012Reply With Quote
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I have only two comments:

I wish you had a better one.

I wish I owned this one.


Cool Cool
(rates a two-cool )
 
Posts: 1765 | Location: Northern Nevada | Registered: 27 February 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by luv2safari:
I have only two comments:

I wish you had a better one.

I wish I owned this one.


Cool Cool
(rates a two-cool )


And I wish I had both! Cape guns are my passion next to double rifles. I have two cape guns. One is a H'Berrela 16 ga left barrel, 8X57 JR (196 gr .318 bullet) right barrel, Exposed Hammer, double trigger. The other is a V. Haffner, left barrel 20 ga, right barrel 58 Berdan carbine rifle. Hammerless with double trigger!

The reason the combos are called CAPE GUNS is they were very popular with the Dutch settlers of the Cape Of Good Hope, and most went to Africa. Cape guns would be perfect for the follow-up for baited leopard, with buck shot in the shot barrel, and the 196 gr soft point bullet in the rifle barrel from the Berrela with a mounted lighted dot quick detach scope removed to use the irons for the follow-up.

…………………………………………………. tu2 old


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14571 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Here's my favorite cape gun, Mac. It's a better quality Sauer with nice French walnut in 12/8X57JR with a second set of 12/12 barrels. Both sets have dedicated forends with ebony tips. This gun now wears a 3X older long-tube Leupold P&CH. I shoot the 12/12 double set like the gun is part of my body. Those barrels are 29 1/2 inches Imp Mod and Full.




 
Posts: 1765 | Location: Northern Nevada | Registered: 27 February 2004Reply With Quote
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I let a light and great handling little 16/9,3X72R cape gun go to a member here in a moment of insanity. I hope he can't hit his ass with the muzzle stuffed up it with that gun. Big Grin


 
Posts: 1765 | Location: Northern Nevada | Registered: 27 February 2004Reply With Quote
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.

I need to stop looking at this thread!

Have been searching for a Cape gun in Germany / UK but zero luck.

I'll keep looking.

.


"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
 
Posts: 1705 | Location: South Africa & Europe | Registered: 10 February 2014Reply With Quote
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A couple of years ago I sold my Cape rifle 16G/ 9.3x62 mfg. 1920, to a member here. Too bad you were looking at the wrong time Charlie, you might have got a deal. Still might; don't quit looking.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 14629 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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I must admit that this is a first for me! The cape guns have always been one of my favorite hunting guns. Having said that, this is the first cape gun I have ever seen that was made in England. Every one I have ever seen was made in Germany!
That is a fine piece, and rare IMO because of being British !

……………...…….GOOG FIND! tu2 old


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14571 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Mac, I have a well-worn Bonehill 303/12 bore hammer cape gun, a Brit of course. It has metford rifling, needs .313 bullets or else it keyholes. I did the dynabore coat, as it was fairly pitted, accurate but terrible fouling. I need to fit it with a peep as my 67 y/o eyes don't work as well as they used to with V sight. Shot over a white tail a few weeks ago at about 50 yards!
 
Posts: 1231 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: 20 October 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by bobc:
Mac, I have a well-worn Bonehill 303/12 bore hammer cape gun, a Brit of course. It has metford rifling, needs .313 bullets or else it keyholes. I did the dynabore coat, as it was fairly pitted, accurate but terrible fouling. I need to fit it with a peep as my 67 y/o eyes don't work as well as they used to with V sight. Shot over a white tail a few weeks ago at about 50 yards!


The cape gun pictured by luv2safari is a perfect set-up for leopard baited and shot from a blind. The quick detach scope used for the shot from the blind, then removed for the irons for the follow-up, and a light affixed to the front sling stud so the light shines any place the gun is pointed. One of the little lights
made for use on handguns would work perfectly.

My Barella chambered for the 16 ga shot on the left barrel with double OO buck shot, and the rifle barrel chambered for the 8X57JR,(.318 DIA) with a 196 gr soft point is the nuts for the follow-up in the dark with the light on the bottom of the barrels.

Once you hunt with a cape gun, you will see why these things were so popular with the settlers of South Africa.

…………………………………………………………. tu2 old


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14571 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I too enjoy hunting with my Cape guns. So far I've only had one kill. This viscous beast came snooping around during the range test of my Franz Thiele 8x72R x 16 ga. I used the 8x72R barrel - not the 16ga. http://forums.accuratereloadin...5105333/m/2081053452



" .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... "

How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon

How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar
 
Posts: 1667 | Location: Whitetail Country - Wisconsin | Registered: 28 September 2013Reply With Quote
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Buck, Are you bored with the Cogswell yet ?!?!?!

I'm still holding my breath wave

Charlie

.


"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
 
Posts: 1705 | Location: South Africa & Europe | Registered: 10 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Charlie64: Buck, Are you bored with the Cogswell yet ?!?!?!

I'm still holding my breath wave

Charlie.

Hello Charlie64,
Thanks for the reply.

Well, yes, I'm done licking the honey off of it. I wouldn't mind passing it on, but would have no clue how to ship it out of the country.


" .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... "

How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon

How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar
 
Posts: 1667 | Location: Whitetail Country - Wisconsin | Registered: 28 September 2013Reply With Quote
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Lots of fun and many thanks for including us as you bring these rifles and shotguns back into service
Interesting how much the rear sight is drifted to the left
 
Posts: 1466 | Location: Vermont | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Zephyr:
Lots of fun and many thanks for including us as you bring these rifles and shotguns back into service
Interesting how much the rear sight is drifted to the left

Hello Zephyr,
Thanks for the reply.

You don't really notice the rear sight position when shooting.


" .... you never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early .... "

How to Hunt Wisconsin Whitetail Deer with a Cannon

How to Hunt Feral Cats with a Mortar
 
Posts: 1667 | Location: Whitetail Country - Wisconsin | Registered: 28 September 2013Reply With Quote
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