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Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

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I thought we were having a real discussion

Cross L, my apologies, I thought the real discussion had ended when it finally got to the point that someone who had no experience in the subject at hand was not "discussing" things any longer.

The subject beong ethical hunting- and most of us on the forum have experience with hunting ethics.

SSR

Let me ask you guys a question. Who do you think sets the quotas in the Range States' govenment owned privately leased and operated hunting concessions?

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The subject beong ethical hunting- and most of us on the forum have experience with hunting ethics.

No the subject was poisoned lions.

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Let me ask you guys a question. Who do you think sets the quotas in the Range States' govenment owned privately leased and operated hunting concessions?

Please define Range States'

I believe that the Range States is the collective name given to all of the countries in which have wild lion populations living in free-range environment.

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Let me ask you guys a question. Who do you think sets the quotas in the Range States' govenment owned privately leased and operated hunting concessions?

Thanks for the definition. Quotas are set many many different ways and I am sure that some people here know some of the other ways that quotas are set that I don't know about. Some are set as plainly as wild numbers pulled out of the air by a government official who has never set foot on a hunting concession. Some are set by parks department after parks employees produce survey and harvest data. This data can also vary from very good quality to horrible. Some of the best quota systems are set up by the lease holders or land owners doing their own surveys which are usually of a higher quality than what governments could hope to provide, then the operators present a proposed quota to the government and they can approve or disaprove. Sometimes these suggested quotas may have to even go before a board and be voted on before they are submitted to the government for aproval. Like I said there are certianly some other quota setting methods I have left out here.

OK...I agree with all that you have said.

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Some are set as plainly as wild numbers pulled out of the air by a government official who has never set foot on a hunting concession. Some are set by parks department after parks employees produce survey and harvest data.

OK...please describe the type of person likely to be in each of the above jobs in those countries.

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Some of the best quota systems are set up by the lease holders or land owners doing their own surveys which are usually of a higher quality than what governments could hope to provide, then the operators present a proposed quota to the government and they can approve or disaprove. Sometimes these suggested quotas may have to even go before a board and be voted on before they are submitted to the government for aproval.

The only thing wrong with this type is that it is the exception rather than the rule.

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OK...please describe the type of person likely to be in each of the above jobs in those countries.

Quality can vairy widely.

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Originally posted by smarterthanu:

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OK...please describe the type of person likely to be in each of the above jobs in those countries.

Quality can vairy widely.

Again...I agree. But...in my experience...the variance is highly skewed in one direction.

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The only thing wrong with this type is that it is the exception rather than the rule.

I totally agree that quotas can be useless very often because they are based on inadequate surveys or even worse corrupt governments. That is why these quotas must set individualy with the best science that can be attained for each area and we must police the operators who would try and corrupt them. But where the quota system is run properly and corruption limited if existant at all, everyone wins.

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Again...I agree. But...in my experience...the variance is highly skewed in one direction.

Then lets fix that.

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Originally posted by smarterthanu:

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Again...I agree. But...in my experience...the variance is highly skewed in one direction.

Then lets fix that.

Definitely something we need to work on for sure. And something we have plans "try" to do as long as it does not become a moot point.

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Definitely something we need to work on for sure. And something we have plans "try" to do as long as it does not become a moot point.

It won't happen if all you do is argue that hunters can only kill 6+ year old lions. You will put tons of energy and funds into proving that point and when you start trying to show accurate quota systems are the answer the antis will have all your old ammunition to use against you.