My hunting partner bought a like new Remington M700 BDL in 30'06. I told him that I'd load some 180 Partations with H4350 for him but he wants 150's. I have never killed an elk so I have no practical experience, is it worth further discussion? I have a lot of experience with partations but none with the new copper or bonded bullets, so I'm limiting his choice to partations.

I have killed elk with

140 grn Accubond from my .270
150 grain Accubonds out of my 30-06

Just two.....but both dead as doornails in less than 50 yards

both bullets from my rifles were also running sub 3000 FPS at around 2900

I run I4350 under my 150's in my -06 and it's my load for everything.....elk or deer

I'd feel more comfortable with 180's, but if he insists on 150's, so long as they are Partition or Accubonds, the elk probably won't know the difference.

I would prefer the 180 Partition's.

I do tend to be a heavyier bullet kind of guy.

I also like heavier bullets for elk but if your friend is expecting long shots the 150's should work fine using a premium bullet.

Tom Does your friend have a reason for wanting to use a 150 gr bullet? rather than the 180 Partition you are suggesting? There may be some middle ground. The 165 gr Barnes TSX or TTSX bullets would be an excellent choice.

I killed my first 3 elk with a 243 shooting 105g Speer spitzers. A 150g Partition will work fine in a 30-06 as long as the rifle likes them (accuracy wise).

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I also like heavier bullets for elk but if your friend is expecting long shots the 150's should work fine using a premium bullet.

However, a Colorado friend of mine now in his 80s or passed away, pulled bullets from 06 military and replaced them with Speer 150 psp.s. Got his elks every year since around 1947.
49 to 50 grains of H-4895 should get the job done. roger

I'm in the heavier bullet camp. If a 150 will do the job, a 180 or 200 will do it better. Why not buy the extra insurance?
I don't even use 150s on deer.

If I draw a late season cow elk tag here in Co I'll use a Shilen barrel 30-06 with 150gr E-Tip.

For an .06, I'd consider the 180gr Ballistic tips. But if he wants to say with the 150gr bullets, at accubonds will work fine.

I guess it all boils down to what type of hunt he will be doing. I go along with the majority of a good premium 180 gr. bullet. My last elk hunt was for a cow in early December. I wasn't too sure what conditions I would run into so I brought two rifles, a .35 Whelen with the barnes 225 gr. TSX bullet and my .300 Win. mag. using the 200 gr. Nosler Partition. I've dropped a cow elk with that .300 out as far as 530 yards laser measured. Not my most favorite way to hunt but you got to take what shots show up. Th cow took maybe one step and folded.
My last cow elk hunt was for an area where there was a very good chance the shot would be like one of Elmer Keiths "raking" shots and sure as hell, that's what I got. The Whelen with thar TSX bullet dropped that cow in mid step. Fastest bang/flop I've ever seen in 63 years of hunting. Killed my first deer in 1954 IIRC. That bullet hit the elk just behing the short rids as she quartered to the left. The bullet exited between the neck and the right shoulder and madam elk hit the ground right now.
I'll be on that hunt once more come the first part of december if I'm still above ground and that Whelen will be my first choice once more. probably take the .300 Mag. too just in case shot are way the hell and gone.
I'm gonna be rying some longer range shooting with the .5 and see just how far out it could be effective.
Elk are big for the most part. I like heavy bullets for heavy game.
Paul B.

If it were me, I'd test an Accubond for accuracy and go from there.

If your friend wants to try the 150gr NP why try to change his mind? They will work.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I'm in the heavier bullet camp. If a 150 will do the job, a 180 or 200 will do it better. Why not buy the extra insurance?

I won't say nay to the heavier bullet clan (they are great) but if a 150 kills out to normal shooting ranges a 180 or 200 won't kill any dead-er

Funny..... a 140 or a 150 is a elk slayer from a .270 or .280 but a 150 from the -06 is thought to be small....

A 150 Accubond at or around 3K is a great bullet!

There are all kinds of great 150 grain bullets that will kill Elk. Partitions, Accubonds, Barnes TSX and tipped TSX, E Tips, A Frames, Scirroco, you name it find one that shoots and put it in the right place.
I shudder to think of all the Elk that have been killed with "lesser" bullets like Power Points, Core Lokts, Sierra's and Hornadys.
Just find a load for his rifle and shoot an Elk with it!

Just curious how much effective range a shooter would give up moving from 150's to 180's (partitions)?

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
Just curious how much effective range a shooter would give up moving from 150's to 180's (partitions)?

None.
Look at the figures and do the math, remaining energy on a 180 is greater too.
My 30/06 loves 180 grain bullets and they work great in it on all kinds of game but if it loved 150's thats what I'd be shooting ( or 165's).

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
Just curious how much effective range a shooter would give up moving from 150's to 180's (partitions)?

None.
Look at the figures and do the math, remaining energy on a 180 is greater too.
My 30/06 loves 180 grain bullets and they work great in it on all kinds of game but if it loved 150's thats what I'd be shooting ( or 165's).

That's why I ask. My 06's love 180's and it's just more practical for me if I keep it simple and stick with a proven load for my rifles. I was asking in the event I ever actually make it out west for an elk hunt. All that being said, I believe that one of the most important elements of shooting is confidence and if someone feels that way about a particular bullet and load then that's probably what they should shoot, assuming it's appropriate for the quarry.

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
Just curious how much effective range a shooter would give up moving from 150's to 180's (partitions)?

None.
Look at the figures and do the math, remaining energy on a 180 is greater too.
My 30/06 loves 180 grain bullets and they work great in it on all kinds of game but if it loved 150's thats what I'd be shooting ( or 165's).

That's why I ask. My 06's love 180's and it's just more practical for me if I keep it simple and stick with a proven load for my rifles. I was asking in the event I ever actually make it out west for an elk hunt. All that being said, I believe that one of the most important elements of shooting is confidence and if someone feels that way about a particular bullet and load then that's probably what they should shoot, assuming it's appropriate for the quarry.

I'd argue that with momentum being a major part of the penetration dynamic, the 180s allow a wider range of shots to be taken as well. Damn near any centre fire cartridge will reliably penetrate the ribs for a braodside double lung shot. If you draw a quartering shot, heavier bullets will give more reliable penetration, all else (velocity and bullet construction mainly) being roughly equal. If sticking with 150s, the harder the bullet the better.

Dean

I agree that if the range is on the longish side then the 180's have an advantage -- even at .30-06 velocities. But like I said nearly 20 posts ago, as between a good 150 and a good 180, the elk probably won't know the difference.

Effective range is determined by the shooters ability way more than the bullet weight in hunting situations. Most shots at game are significantly closer than the distances in which ballistic coefficients play a role.

I have an '06 that shoots 165's through 180's very well. But a 165gr NP vs. a 180gr isn't even a thought in my mind for shooting game. The game won't care. Either seem to be as effective. To be honest, I have confidence I could bring home an elk with my .25-06 with 120's and wouldn't hesitate to take the shot.

quote:

Originally posted by tom ga hunter:
My hunting partner bought a like new Remington M700 BDL in 30'06. I told him that I'd load some 180 Partations with H4350 for him but he wants 150's. I have never killed an elk so I have no practical experience, is it worth further discussion? I have a lot of experience with partations but none with the new copper or bonded bullets, so I'm limiting his choice to partations.

Nothing wrong with Partitions. I've used them in 160gr out of 7mm to kill a number of elk and a Shiras moose. Put me in the camp of recommending to your friend to shoot whatever's most accurate 150, 165 or 180.

The only partition I ever recovered was the one I used on my moose. It was found under the skin of the offside. Moose went about 10-15', wobbled and dropped.

Hot Topic!

I would not shoot 150 gr. .30 cal bullets at elk if I had any heavier bullet available.

I once shot a small deer at 40 yards with a 150 gr. cup&core bullet. It impacted squarely on the shoulder & blew it to pieces (both bullet & shoulder). The shoulder blade turned the bullet's path 90 deg, with the slug ending up under the hide where your "belly-button" would be.

If I know anything at all, an adult elk shoulder is a boat-load tougher than an 80lb. whitetail.

If I wanted to shoot an all copper bullet, it would be 165/168 gr. Barnes.

If I wanted to shoot a lead core, it would be 180 gr. partition, accubond, a-frame, or even core-lokt. I shouldn't forget about the trophy bonded either. I would feel alright shooting a 165 gr. lead core bullet, but it would not be my first choice.

If all I had were 150 gr. core-lokts, I'd still hunt, no doubt about it. But I'd be careful to avoid hitting those heavy shoulder bones.

Best of wishes, and good luck

friar

Btw, that bullet that blew up was factory .308 Win. I'd guess that the muzzle velocity was something around 2800 fps.

friar

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:

Put me in the camp of recommending to your friend to shoot whatever's most accurate 150, 165 or 180.

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:
Hot Topic!

I would not shoot 150 gr. .30 cal bullets at elk if I had any heavier bullet available.

I once shot a small deer at 40 yards with a 150 gr. cup&core bullet.

I wouldn't shoot cup-core bullets at elk either.

Last time I checked it was 2012 and we have TTSX. Accubond's and GMX's to shoot. 150's are plenty with either of these and most likely going to get a complete pass-through.

Anyone ever look at sectional density of bullets anymore? Remember, the higher number the better penetration? I know its old fashion but it works. 180 or 200 NP all the way for elk.

H4350 & a 180 or 200 gr Partition...

Elk are tough...leave the 150s at home...

quote:

Originally posted by armed_in_utah:
H4350 & a 180 or 200 gr Partition...

Elk are tough...leave the 150s at home...

Last fall my hunting partner shot a 5x5 bull with 180 Partitions out of a .300 Winchester. The bull took three in the chest and still went an extra sixty yards to die inconveniently in a timbered draw.

My friend's reaction was that maybe he should switch to 200 grain Partitions. But then I pointed out to him that all three of the 180's completely penetrated the chest cavity, so what was it he expected the 200's to do that the 180's didn't?

After thinking on it he admitted that it often just takes elk a while to die and that complete body pentration, whether with a 125 grain .30 caliber or a 200 grain .30 caliber bullet amounts to the same thing. The only diffence is that, all things being equal, the heavier the bullet the slower the velocity, so you get less expansion with the heavier bullet and therefore potentially less trama to the vitals. If he had been using 150 Partitions they might or might not have exited, but the elk would have fallen in the same place or maybe closer.

Yes, if you shoot a northbound elk in the south end, then the extra penetration of something like a .30/200 Partition might be helpful in reaching the vitals; but if you shoot where you're supposed to it won't matter much.

By the way, would anyone here like to volunteer to stand behind an elk while I shoot it with a 150 grain Partition out of a .30-06? No, I didn't think so.

My hesitation does not lie in whether a 150 gr. partition (or X bullet; or other bonded bullet) can achieve full penetration of a broadside (or reasonably angled) shot. I have no doubt such shots would be as lethal as any heavier projectile.

I stop short, however, in asking this question: what if I hit the shoulder blade/socket and that's where the bullet stops/goes south?

Then you have a shot where full penetration isn't had, and now you have "issues".

So, if bambi's shoulder can turn a 150 gr. cup & core bullet, you can be sure an elk's can too

friar

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:
Hot Topic!

I would not shoot 150 gr. .30 cal bullets at elk if I had any heavier bullet available.

I once shot a small deer at 40 yards with a 150 gr. cup&core bullet.

I wouldn't shoot cup-core bullets at elk either.

Last time I checked it was 2012 and we have TTSX. Accubond's and GMX's to shoot. 150's are plenty with either of these and most likely going to get a complete pass-through.

Why not? I have and it worked just fine. 180 grain Winchester pp's did the job just fine on a couple if cows for me back before I discovered reloading. I shoot premium bullets these days because I reload, if I didn't I'd still be shoot ing green,silver, and blue box ammunition.

quote:

Originally posted by armed_in_utah:
H4350 & a 180 or 200 gr Partition...

Elk are tough...leave the 150s at home...

Ah....O.K.

I'd happily shoot a 180 gr. cup & core at an elk, but I'd still be careful to avoid the shoulder bones, at least as much as I could!

Make no mistake, avoid the bones, and any .30 cal bullet that expands will kill the animal with one shot. But the damn bones! That's where it gets tricky.

friar

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:
I'd happily shoot a 180 gr. cup & core at an elk, but I'd still be careful to avoid the shoulder bones, at least as much as I could!

Make no mistake, avoid the bones, and any .30 cal bullet that expands will kill the animal with one shot. But the damn bones! That's where it gets tricky.

friar

Never had a problem blowing through both shoulders on one of them. The other was a spine shot straight down between the shoulders, she required a finishing shot to the back of the head. My little sampling hasn't left me doubting the effectivness of a properly selected cup-n-core bullet. I wouldn't trust anything other than a premium 150-165 grain bullet for elk, but I'd chase them all day with a non-premium 180 grain hunting bullet.

I think I would work up a load with 165-grain Partitions and tell my friend they will kill like a 180 and fly virtually as flat as a 150, so he gets the best of both worlds. Partitions just plain flat work...

These threads are funny

No they are not funny. There are uninformed hunters out there with little knowlege and the game animal often pays the price. Use the appropriate load for the game you are hunting.

I can't hardly wait to hear what that is

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I can't hardly wait to hear what that is

Me too! I have always wanted someone to tell us all what the perfect hunting solution is.