For PG: 7mm RMag - pick a bullet...

06 April 2014, 11:39

416Tanzan

quote:
Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Robert
I'd stick with the 150's. If they shoot well then they definitely offer a slight advantage with less drop at longer distances. Make good shots and you'll have great kills.

I too am headed to SA in June for Plains Game, decided I'd bring my old 30/06 and right now it's shooting 165 Accubonds really well and they are going 2920 fps. They aren't my first choice but I have absolute confidence that they will do the job if I do.

Good luck on your trip!

Both rifle combinations sound like they will work fine. I've shot a lot of plains game with a .270 win. It teaches one to be careful with shots. And with the same care extended to larger calibre the outcomes are more impressive and more sure.

Here is something I ran across on the web from Elmer Keith:

quote:
Elmer Keith, 1982, "Big Game Bullets"
"... I sent a hunting party to Charlie Snook at Elk Summit in the sixties. Each had a .270 rifle and 150-grain bulleted ammo. Two of them shot three elk each and the other two each shot two elk, they wounded and lost them all. Charlie was as mad as a wet hen when they wanted to book again for the next year. He told them he would only book them if they came to me and took my recommendations for an elk rifle. They did so and I told them to get Model 70 Winchester rifles in .375 H&H and use 300-grain bullets. Then sight the rifles 150 yards for that heavy-timbered elk country. They booked again and after the hunt they each came in with a fifth of scotch for me and claimed they got four elk with one shot!
"Leslie Simson, who hunted Africa for years and filled many museum groups of African game, used a .577 double for lion and all the big stuff, and for plains game he recommended a rifle of .35 caliber throwing a 275-grain bullet at 2500 feet per second (fps) and if any change is required, then add bullet weight rather than velocity. After a lifetime of hunting from the Arctic to Africa, I concur with his findings 100 percent.
"I stopped booking anyone for elk unless they used a rifle throwing at least a 250-grain bullet and not less than .33 caliber in the rifle, as I was getting pretty tired of trailing wounded elk. Summing up our present big-game bullets, the 250-.338 and 300-grain Nosler Partition jacket always gave good results even though the point-half would blow off at close range. . . The Sierra Boattails in both 250 grains .338 and 300-grain .375 were by all odds the most accurate game bullets I have ever fired but at the time did not expand much on broadside shots at antelope. They also blew up on bones of heavier game. The 275 old heavy jacket Speer was, for many years, my standby in the various .338 caliber rifles."

The advice should always give one pause when traveling for a special hunt.

06 April 2014, 13:24

Norseman

quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:
I'm headed to SA for a PG hunt in June and trying to decide on my 7mm Rem Mag load.

I can do either:

3,000 fps, 150 gr. TSX
2,850 fps, 175 gr. A-Frame

Accuracy is superb: Both shoot 1" groups at 200 yards. Trajectory is +/- 2" at 400 yards.

Which do you choose?

What species do you plan on harvesting?

06 April 2014, 21:00

rnovi

quote:
Originally posted by Norseman:
quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:
I'm headed to SA for a PG hunt in June and trying to decide on my 7mm Rem Mag load.

I can do either:

3,000 fps, 150 gr. TSX
2,850 fps, 175 gr. A-Frame

Accuracy is superb: Both shoot 1" groups at 200 yards. Trajectory is +/- 2" at 400 yards.

Which do you choose?

What species do you plan on harvesting?

Beests (Blue, Black Harte), Zebra, Gembok, Maybe a Kudu (*it would have to be an exceptional one at this point). There's an outside chance on an Eland but I'd wait for ideal shot presentation (broadside).

08 April 2014, 02:08

Norseman

Have you looked at North Fork bullets.

08 April 2014, 02:54

rnovi

quote:
Originally posted by Norseman:
Have you looked at North Fork bullets.

Yes, quite familiar with them. Good stuff. Having said that I'm limiting my choices to just the lighter 150gr. mono-metal and the heavier 175gr. A-Frame.

The choice isn't so much about which maker is "best" - it's really more a question of lighter Mono-metal construction vs. heavyweight construction. A-Frames, Northforks, Partitions…and which choice would YOU make.

I've narrowed my choice down to either the 150 mono or a 175 partition type bullet. So, do I believe in the pushing more velocity or do I want more weight and theoretically penetration?

Right now I'm still leaning towards the 175gr. A-Frames but it will depend on final reload testing in a couple weeks.

15 April 2014, 01:28

Gerard

One could use conventional bullets or, as we have been doing since 1997, apply a little science. I used to have to follow up the occasional animal for a client or for myself. Since 1997 - no follow ups, just boring success every time.

16 April 2014, 08:25

brno338

The 2 trips I went on for PG I shot 12 head with my 284 Win and the 140 TSX @ 3100fps, all exits and instant kills. 2nd trip was with my 7mm SAUM and the Hornady 139 GMX,3200fps same number of animals with same results. So would go with your 150 TSX in a heartbeat and never look back!!

17 April 2014, 09:21

AK_Stick

Given that the TSX will typically hold together better than a traditional bullet, and out penetrate them I see no reason to shoot a slightly heavier lead core bullet.

03 July 2014, 06:16

rnovi

In the end I did go with the 150 gr. Nosler E-Tip. I just got back and have this to report:

Black Wildebeest - poor shooting on my part but no bullets recovered.

Blue Wildebeest - singe shot took out upper shoulder and spine, exited. 117 yards.

Zebra: 107 yards - slightly angling away. Impact 5" behind the triangle, bullet stopped after breaking far shoulder. This was the only bullet recovered.

Springbok: no bullet recovered. No surprise though.

Hartebeest: perfect behind the shoulder, exit in front of off shoulder lung/heart shot. No bullet recovered.

Warthog: no bullet recovered.

Eland: 200 yards, impact to right lower shoulder, broke the big bone, bullet did not make the heart. Eland got back up, second shot into high left shoulder. Neither bullet was recovered from the lung/gut pile.

All in all, I call the 150gr. E-Tip a rousing success - but can openly state: the 7mm RM really is light for Bull Eland. I suspect a .338+ with a 250 gr bullet would have been a one-shot kill. The 150 just didn't have enough penetration to get to the heart after busting through the big shoulder bones. Autopsy photos showed a 2" hole bored through with massive bone chip damage strewn all about.

Full hunt report coming soon!

03 July 2014, 08:01

416Tanzan

Robert,

Thank you for the honest and helpful report.

I've shot a lot of plains game animals with the 270Win and 338WM, and been around quite a few animals taken with the 7mmRM, too. All three cartridges can take any game, but the 338 WM definitely puts more hurt on the animals. Your comment on the 7mm for eland rings true. The 270, too, will take an eland, but it is on the light side and marginal. Heavier calibre is better if given a choice.

For the larger antelope, and for buffalo should the occasion necessitate, the 338 became one of my favorite all around rifles. A 225 grain TTSX or a 250 grain NP/Aframe/Northfork are great hunting bullets. Nowadays, I hoping my wife can try out the 235gn CEB in .375Ruger.

Good hunting.

04 July 2014, 01:39

Atkinson

Either one would work..My favorite would be the 175 gr. Nosler partition, as it always works and retains velocity well at extended ranges and its great for elk, Eland, Zebra and Wildebeest, the larger PG that Africa has to offer and the heavy Noslers work on Impala and Duiker quite well also..

Some might think I'm partial to Nosler in calibers 30-06 and up and that would be true and with good reason, they have been my go to for about 65 or more years and never one failure, not one.

04 July 2014, 03:43

Chuck Nelson

I shot this Moose at 330 yds angling steeply towards me. I broke his right shoulder and I found the 150 gr TSX under the hide beyond his left hip. That is a lot of Moose to plow through.

04 July 2014, 04:14

JGRaider

I went to Namibia this past May, armed with my 7mm RM and 160 Accubonds for plains game (no eland). 12 animals total inc 2 oryx, kudu, 2 wildebeest, 2 red hartebeest, mtn zebra, 2 impala, 2 springbuck, were no problem with one well placed shot. The 160 AB's are most impressive. These are the only ones caught.....

[URL=http://s156.photobucket.com/user/JGrimes_2007/media/photo2copy_zpsee2ce9a1.jpg.html]

04 July 2014, 18:17

sbhooper

If you are looking for a load for whatever heavy bullet you choose to use, you might consider Reloder 33 if you have a 26-inch barrel. That powder really lifts the 7 mag.

06 July 2014, 09:29

Atkinson

With any bullet weight other than a 175 gr. in the 7 mag. I would prefer the .270 Win. Fwt. with a 22 inch barrel..

The 7 mags show me little advantage and lot of reasons not to use them until you shoot the 175 gr. bullets at 3000 FPS and that's an elk load.

02 September 2014, 02:51

GkP

"trajectory +/- 2" @ 400 yds" ? I'm not thinking that is correct - If you don't get that 175 going close to 3000 fps, even though the terminal energy will be more than sufficient, it will drop fairly fast - Also, IF you are gonna consider 150's then you should give the E-Tip a try (shoots great in some guns) I use 140 and 160 Accubonds exclusively and have had no problems or failures at all
(Mike, I LOVE your rules to live by)

02 September 2014, 04:52

TexKD

I am taking a 7MM RM loaded with either 160 Partitions or 160 Accubonds. The 7mm's traveling companion in the case is a 416 Rem Mag with 400 grain Nosler Partitions.

I will say that almost all the Phs that I talked to over the past couple of years say they have seen excellent results from the Barnes TSX or maybe the TTSX. Some said it is tops on their bullet list.

I might would give the TTSX a try but the 150 seemed too light to me in spite of its reputation.

02 September 2014, 04:56

TexKD

quote:
Originally posted by JGRaider:
I went to Namibia this past May, armed with my 7mm RM and 160 Accubonds for plains game (no eland). 12 animals total inc 2 oryx, kudu, 2 wildebeest, 2 red hartebeest, mtn zebra, 2 impala, 2 springbuck, were no problem with one well placed shot. The 160 AB's are most impressive. These are the only ones caught.....

[URL=http://s156.photobucket.com/user/JGrimes_2007/media/photo2copy_zpsee2ce9a1.jpg.html]

Thank you for that informative post JG. That is great hunting results .

02 September 2014, 05:01

Biebs

Rob, I didn't know you were going over! Congrats, now start planning #2.

02 September 2014, 11:04

Gerard

It is interesting that the two wildebeest bullets show evidence of tumbling. Ray, you should give the 130gr HV a try where you are using the 175gr bullets. They give less recoil and, internal and external ballistics are improved while you give away nothing in terminal ballistics.

416Tanzan, have a look at this.

07 September 2014, 19:52

Dogleg

quote:
Originally posted by Gerard:
One could use conventional bullets or, as we have been doing since 1997, apply a little science. I used to have to follow up the occasional animal for a client or for myself. Since 1997 - no follow ups, just boring success every time.

Never had an animal run in 27 years? Is there witchcraft involved?

07 September 2014, 20:28

Gerard

Dogleg,

quote:
Never had an animal run in 27 years? Is there witchcraft involved?

As I understand it, 'follow up' means that the animal runs out of sight. It has to be tracked. An animal running after the shot is normal, depending on how the animal was hit. As I understand it, there is a difference. I have had animals run after the shot but never so that I have to follow up. Walking to the spot where the animal has fallen is not 'follow up' as I understand it.

1997 to date is 17 years. That is math, not witchcraft.

07 September 2014, 21:48

Dogleg

quote:
Originally posted by Gerard:
Dogleg,

quote:
Never had an animal run in 27 years? Is there witchcraft involved?
As I understand it, 'follow up' means that the animal runs out of sight. It has to be tracked. An animal running after the shot is normal, depending on how the animal was hit. As I understand it, there is a difference. I have had animals run after the shot but never so that I have to follow up. Walking to the spot where the animal has fallen is not 'follow up' as I understand it.

1997 to date is 17 years. That is math, not witchcraft.

OK, 17 years. I was mentally adding up how long its been since dad had an animal run, and since he quit hunting 27 years ago..................

Neither yourself or a client had an animal get out of sight in 17 years?

07 September 2014, 22:37

Gerard

Yep, but since 1992 I only take clients out for whom I built rifles or taught to reload. Naturally they shoot GSC bullets. Before 1992 I made lead core bullets for 10 years and in 1992 started turning copper monos. Since 1997, when the HV, FN and SP ranges started, there has been this satisfying run of success.

I have been blessed by being in the right place at the right time.

08 September 2014, 19:20

Dogleg

For curiousity what are your average number of shots per buffalo with your bullets?

08 September 2014, 20:01

Gerard

Dogleg,

I do not shoot dangerous game or go where they are, I am too chicken to do that. So I cannot tell, except that there is a greater measure of success than previously and this is reported by professional hunters as well as users. I can only assume that the results there follows the results I see on plains game. Maybe one should ask the users directly. The position of a manufacturer is always clouded by the disbelief of 'he is probably marketing his product'.

Given that dangerous game is a very small market and the bulk of GSC products are used on plains game (HV and HP) and for serious work where gold or lives are at stake (SP), that is where I have most personal experience.

The SA factory currently runs a 15 to 20 week lead time and the USA factory lead time is about 2 to 3 weeks. The SA factory serves Australia, New Zeeland and Europe and the USA factory serves the Americas and Canada.