The Accurate Reloading Forums
Ran out of elevation adjustment on a scope on a CZ 9.3
23 February 2024, 05:23
johnnyrebRan out of elevation adjustment on a scope on a CZ 9.3
Not sure if this post belongs here, but I was not sure where else to put it...
My setup:
CZ550 American in 9.3x62
CZ factory scope mounts
Leupold VX3 1.75 to 6 scope
I recently mounted the scope on the rifle, took it to the range, and my scope topped out on the elevation adjustment while my shots (286 grain Remington factory loads) were still 5 inches low at 50 yards. I had no such issue with the previous scope, which was a 1.5 to 5 Leupold VX3 in the same scope mounts.
Any suggestions on what is wrong, a possible remedy, etc? I may just put the 1.5 to 5 back on and have another go at the range...
23 February 2024, 08:22
Lamaryou'll maybe have to shim the scope, or use a different set of rings.
some rings come with slightly different heights and they are easy to put on in the wrong position.
all things to look at.
the shimming is the last thing I'd want to do for that much adjustment though, your looking at something like 50 thou or more worth of shim stock to get close at 100 and not still have everything cranked down.
23 February 2024, 17:19
bluefishOr go back to the old scope.
23 February 2024, 17:37
p dog shooterIs there a difference in the front and back rings.
23 February 2024, 18:41
johnnyrebSame scope mounts I was using with the 1.5 VX3 and had no issue, so I will try again with the 1.5 versus the 1.75...
23 February 2024, 22:40
Mike_DettorreJust be clear - are you saying that you simply removed the top half of the rings, removed the old scope, and dropped in thew scope?
If the answer is "yes", then I would ask is the new scope "new" or is it "used". If used, turn the elevation adjust all the way to stops in 1 direction and then turn back in the other direction. You should be able to ~4 complete revolutions. If not, send the scope back to Leupold.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
23 February 2024, 23:05
BaxterBOdd. I have rhat exact same scope on my 9.3. No issues, but of course we are using different bases/rings.
Leupold says the 1.5 has 125moa of adjustment whereas the 1.75x has only 42. You might just be outside the range.
23 February 2024, 23:08
johnnyrebYep, just took the top half of the rings off to install the 1.75 VX3, which I did buy second hand on this forum...
23 February 2024, 23:28
Mike_DettorreAt 42 MOA you should have about 3.5 revolutions
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
24 February 2024, 00:22
johnnyrebBaxterB and Mike, thank you kindly for the MOA information.
BaxterB, if I may ask, what bases and rings are you using?
24 February 2024, 01:09
BaxterBquote:
Originally posted by johnnyreb:
BaxterB and Mike, thank you kindly for the MOA information.
BaxterB, if I may ask, what bases and rings are you using?
They are custom bases for Talley rings. On a Mauser.
24 February 2024, 01:53
eagle27When mounting a scope on any rifle I always centre the vertical and horizontal adjustments, then bore sight the rifle. This will give an initial indication of any irregularities with the rings and/or bases. If the bore sighting shows the POI is well off with centred adjustments then there is likely going to be issues with getting the rifle shot in.
Not all rifles shoot exactly to the bore but generally close enough to allow adjustments to scopes to be within range. Even if the scope can be adjusted to provide the required POI you do not want the horizontal or vertical turret adjustments to be way off centred as this can lead to erratic changes in POI.
I'm suspicious of the second hand scope you have fitted assuming nothing has been changed with the rings from when the original scope was fitted.
24 February 2024, 03:16
BaxterBIt would be interesting to know where your 1.5 is in the elevation adjustment range. Starting from where it’s OK, count the clicks to the most UP adjustment. Then count the clicks all the way to max DOWN. Where in that range is “sighted in”?
Given the amount of MOA adjustment the 1.5 has, it may be able to mask another issue…maybe
24 February 2024, 05:57
sambarman338I've found some variation is not unusual when a different scope is used in the same rings - but it should not be that drastic and you don't want to be far from the centre of adjustments once sighted in, even with modern, image-movement scopes.
A raised rear base such as long-range target shooters use might solve your problem, but then you need to take care the scope doesn't get bent in the mounting process.
That may be part of the problem already, of course - if the last owner bent the alloy body in mounting and the bend has remained.
As to getting the reticle centred before mounting, after you've counted the clicks etc, put the scope in V-blocks (Vs cut across a shoe box might do) and turn it through 360 degrees while trained on a target, then adjust the knobs to keep the reticle in the middle. This will not only find the optical centre but if the scope is bent, you'll soon know it.
24 February 2024, 21:56
AtkinsonWhen mounting a scope first of all you need to set the adjustments center by clicking to stop and half way back to get both to center of the focal plane..install on gun and bore sight it and it should be very close to centered cross hairs, if not? then return adjustments to center and shim to zero..A lot of folks just stick a scope on and sight it in and it may be way off center and that can create all manor or problems as to holding its zero etc..Your scope cross hairs should be sighed in with the cross hairs close to a centered focal plane..
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
26 February 2024, 00:14
chuck375quote:
Originally posted by bluefish:
Or go back to the old scope.
Agree I love my Leupold 1.5-5x
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
29 February 2024, 17:18
Ben351wNot trying to be a prick but are you sure you’re dialing the scope the right way? I’ve seen it happen more then once.
29 February 2024, 22:09
Phil BrousseauBurris signature rings with proper incerts can give you as much as 40 moa correction.
03 March 2024, 21:59
bghntr416Probably a bad scope. I have had several Leupolds with this type of problem. Most recently a VX-6. Easiest way to check is to put the gun in a cleaning cradle. Put a bore site device on it, then spin the turrets while watching the cross hairs through the scope. The problems I had was that the crosshairs stopped moving but I still had a lot of adjustment lift on the turret. Scopes were returned to Leupold for repair.
08 March 2024, 23:41
johnnyrebI ended up putting the 1.5 to 5 back on the rifle and had no issues at the range.
bghntr416, I will give your suggestion a try...
05 May 2024, 23:42
AtkinsonAlways check the action, many times it may need to be surface ground.. Most can use that to one degree or another. Also makes return to zero more acceptable it seems.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
06 May 2024, 07:39
sambarman338This story and the supporting tales of woe make me wonder why we don't all go to the window and do a Peter Finch. Any scope on a rifle of the 9.3's recoil needs a scope without an articulated erector tube, something not made in the US since Unertl threw in the towel about 1985.
Scopes of all kinds really need to be installed straight, though, with the reticles centred, close to the bore sight. This may indeed require a gunsmith grinding something but I would start with the mounts.
This happens quite often.
I use cut up soft drinks cans.
I cut to the right size and use several together.
06 May 2024, 19:20
Mike_Dettorreit must be all my clean living...I have never run out of adjustment across 50+ rifle, scope, ring/mount combinations.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
it must be all my clean living...I have never run out of adjustment across 50+ rifle, scope, ring/mount combinations.
Same here, except for some (not my firearms) that were incorrectly drilled and tapped.
09 May 2024, 23:35
MARK H. YOUNGHad a Model 70 416 run out of adjustment. Bought the appropriate shims for the rear base. Two shims under the base and problem fixed.
Mark
MARK H. YOUNG
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