ADI Munitions "BTI"

27 November 2013, 19:25

ar corey

ADI Munitions "BTI"

www.outbackammo.com.au

I should be asking if all ADI Munitions powder has "BTI" technology or just resists minor temperature changes.

BTI technology is a proprietary feature that resists "wide" temp. fluctuations.

27 November 2013, 19:27

ar corey

http://www.outbackammo.com.au/?page_id=24

28 November 2013, 20:54

ar corey

bump

30 November 2013, 08:49

SR4759

Are you peddling ammo here?

03 December 2013, 00:30

GBE

All of the ADI AR 22XX range has been marketed as having a wider resistance to temp fluctuations for many years, Australian writers haven't been interested in testing it in any detail though until the outback ammo was brought out.

03 December 2013, 01:58

505G

BGE

I think way back when a few articles existed of tests done.

And we have such a cross section of temps in this country that if it wasn't, word would soon spread.

04 December 2013, 13:14

GBE

Ah, 500N, but if we play the opposite side of the coin the only ammo that word of mouth condemned for extreme temperature variation was Norma; supposedly loaded to max for colder climates and dangerous in anything warmer than a wet spring day in Mansfield.

There is a question of is the "spread word" condemning Norma and silence about Win, Rem etc a product of greater resistance to temperature fluctuation by the latter or just conservatively loaded factory ammo by US makers sold here.

I'd love to see any early articles if you can dig them out

04 December 2013, 15:28

505G

Unlikely, I threw out all my old hunting mags,
20 years worth about 5 years ago.

I just vaguely remember some comments.

04 December 2013, 15:56

GBE

I have a feeling Nick Harvey has been promoting the properties of AR 22XX since the late 80's but like you I've thrown out anything from back then.

I dont recall anything by the chap who wrote the "compact cartridges" column but I could be wrong....

04 December 2013, 20:18

505G

Yes, it was Nick Harvey I was thinking of.

And yes, since the late 80's was the time period
that fits with me as well.

05 December 2013, 19:12

ar corey

I don't believe the ar 22XX powder developed in the 80's is going to offer a wide temp. extreme stability seen in the Outback Ammo.

05 December 2013, 23:08

505G

Depends on what you class as Extreme

I use AR2209

Load up in Melbourne, winter, cold and wet (lets say Frost on the ground overnight).

Jump on a plane, couple of days later I am hunting and the ammo in belt is up around
"can't touch it, it is too hot". I know this
as I have used ammo right after feeling how
hot it was.

All good, DR went off, gun still regulated
- guessing based on where the bullets hit
the animal which was where I aimed.

OK, might not be the wide wide wide extremes
of Outback ammo but sure as hell is OK for
everyone else.

06 December 2013, 00:13

ar corey

Why would I settle for 50 deg. variance if I can get 100 deg.?

06 December 2013, 03:53

505G

I don't know if you can buy the BTI Powder in cans
for reloading ?

Anyone know ?

Either way, I don't need it but if it's available, so be it.

I pick a powder, load and go hunting. The other
issue I have is where I go, AR2209 etc is available, more specialist powders might not be,
especially with the people I stay with.

This of course isn't an issue with you but it
is with me and double rifles.

06 December 2013, 04:08

PaulS

Hodgdon has a variety of "extreme" powders in one and eight pound containers. The sensitivity to extremes in temperature is hardly present at all.
Go to www.hodgdon.com and look at their extreme powders. Most are also made to flow well through the powder measures too.

08 December 2013, 01:51

Con

quote:
Originally posted by GBE:
I have a feeling Nick Harvey has been promoting the properties of AR 22XX since the late 80's but like you I've thrown out anything from back then.

I dont recall anything by the chap who wrote the "compact cartridges" column but I could be wrong....

Drop me a PM, from memory it was Ross Williams in his Handloading column in the old ASJ that covered the discovery of how to control microporosity for tolerance to temperature conditioning. ADI also developed powders that decreased pressures with increasing temperatures.
Cheers...
Con

08 December 2013, 16:06

Rule 303

quote:
Originally posted by ar corey:
I don't believe the ar 22XX powder developed in the 80's is going to offer a wide temp. extreme stability seen in the Outback Ammo.

Why not? The ADI temp insensitive powders were developed back then.

What temp range is Outback ammo said to cover.

08 December 2013, 18:10

505G

quote:
Originally posted by PaulS:
Hodgdon has a variety of "extreme" powders in one and eight pound containers. The sensitivity to extremes in temperature is hardly present at all.
Go to www.hodgdon.com and look at their extreme powders. Most are also made to flow well through the powder measures too.

We are talking about the same powders, that just happen to be made by ADI
but sold to hodgdon and renamed.

09 December 2013, 03:37

Con

quote:
Originally posted by ar corey:
I don't believe the ar 22XX powder developed in the 80's is going to offer a wide temp. extreme stability seen in the Outback Ammo.

AR2201, a precursor powder was not temperature insensitive. It was the release of AR2206 and later that gave the temperature insensitivity. Secret to this day is how they control the level of included microporisity.
Cheers...
Con

09 December 2013, 19:01

PaulS

quote:
Originally posted by 505G:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulS:
Hodgdon has a variety of "extreme" powders in one and eight pound containers. The sensitivity to extremes in temperature is hardly present at all.
Go to www.hodgdon.com and look at their extreme powders. Most are also made to flow well through the powder measures too.

We are talking about the same powders, that just happen to be made by ADI
but sold to hodgdon and renamed.

Yes, I know that. What I was proposing is that there is a lot of information on the Hodgdon website. If you are having trouble getting the facts from ADI perhaps you can get them from Hodgdon.

09 December 2013, 19:27

505G

quote:
The sensitivity to extremes in temperature is hardly present at all.

Paul

I am getting confused by what you write,
especially the above bit.

14 December 2013, 07:08

Bren7X64

Old Nick (Harvey) had a writeup about this in the December 2013 Sporting Shooter.

According to him, the .223 ammo is loaded with BM8208 and the .308 with a new powder not yet available to reloaders (and with an unknown name).

Hope this helps (somewhat).

14 December 2013, 21:03

PaulS

quote:
Originally posted by 505G:
quote:
The sensitivity to extremes in temperature is hardly present at all.

Paul

I am getting confused by what you write,
especially the above bit.

505G,
All powders are affected by extremes in temperature but the "extreme" powders sold by ADI and Hodgdon show very small changes in pressure and velocity when going from very cold to very warm. There is some change but it isn't enough to affect the point of impact at moderate ranges.

Does that help?

15 December 2013, 00:35

Code4

quote:
Originally posted by Con:

AR2201, a precursor powder was not temperature insensitive. It was the release of AR2206 and later that gave the temperature insensitivity. Secret to this day is how they control the level of included microporisity.
Cheers...
Con

Additional graphite was added. ADI/Hodgdon Extreme powders (same powder) all have it.

15 December 2013, 01:04

Con

quote:
Originally posted by Code4:
Additional graphite was added. ADI/Hodgdon Extreme powders (same powder) all have it.

Was anything else done? My understanding was they determined with the AR2206 and onwards powders how to control the level of 'included microporosity' and at 2% the powder became insensitive (relatively) to conditioned powder temperatures.

For interests sake, I think there was also a Cordite that was less temperature sensitive (will have to go through refs to find its name) and I was under the impression a ball powder was being developed in the States that also displayed greater temperature tolerances.

Got to be remembered as well that ADI has and continues to develop powders for specific applications or specifications.
Cheers...
Con

15 December 2013, 01:06

Con

quote:
Originally posted by Con:
quote:
Originally posted by Code4:
Additional graphite was added. ADI/Hodgdon Extreme powders (same powder) all have it.

Was anything else done? My understanding was they determined with the AR2206 and onwards powders how to control the level of 'included microporosity' and at 2% the powder became insensitive (relatively) to conditioned powder temperatures.

For interests sake, I think there was also a Cordite that was less temperature sensitive (will have to go through refs to find its name) and I was under the impression a ball powder was being developed in the States that also displayed greater temperature tolerances.

Got to be remembered as well that ADI has and continues to develop powders for specific applications or specifications some of which become commercial offerings.
Cheers...
Con

15 December 2013, 07:59

Rule 303

quote:
microporosity

Con controlling the burn rate through microporosity helps with the temp insensitivety.

The specific amount of graphite powder also helps ensure a controlled ignition rate of the powder regardless of temperature-with in limits.

Least ways this is my understanding.

16 December 2013, 23:55

HPMaster

St Marks makes powders marketed by Alliant I believe, that are ball and are purported t be very temp insensitive.

MR2000, 4000, AR Comp etc IIRC.

I like IMR8208 XBR and Varget for my 223s and 308, and H4350 & 4831 for about everything bigger. All are ADI powders I believe.