I hope some one kan help me find out why my 280 wont shoot better groups than 2".

My rifle is a Husqvarna 1640 (straight walled mauser) 26" Shilen Super select barrel, fluted.

Mcmillan stock, timney trigger adjusted and tunned.

The rifle has never shot super groups and the bedding wasnt the best job done so my local smith, has re-beded the rifle, at the same time he ran a throating reamer and opened up a little as it was pretty tight.

I have tried numerous combinations of bullets and powder but the best group is with 156 grs Norma Oryx at 2". I ran some Norma factory loads through it and the group was 3,5"

All shooting of a bench with a 1-4 leupold on QR rings.

The bases where checked by the smith to try and eliminate potential problems and the QR levers are good and tight.

I am running out of idea's as one moment the rifle will shoot 2 rounds next to each other and then the third 1,5" from them(shooter doing his part) . The next group and the first bullet hits 2" lower. I am really confussed as my 338 RUM and 7mm-08 with Lothar barrel all group under 1/2 MOA.

Is the 280 difficult to load to sub MOA ?

I have ordered an new lothar barrel, but does any one have any suggestions which I may try before the new barrel is installed.

The muzzle velocity is higher than published for each given load (~350 fps) I have no explanation for this other than an extra 4" barrel but this does not justify everything.

Thanks

Glen

Glen,

My .280 Rem is a Rem M721 action with a 24" no. 4 contour Douglas Premium barrel. It is very easy to load for.

For example with the 168 Sierra Matchking HPBT bullet and MRP powder it stays under a half-minute for powder weights between 52.0 gr and 53.5 gr, and velocities run 2620 to 2672 fps (mesured at 12 feet).

I would change scopes and observe. Do you have one with 6X or 10X magnification?

jim

Glen

The 280 is a very accurate cartridge and I know it must be frustrating for you. I have one that I use at 1000 yard benchrest and it will shoot 5 shot groups under 1/2 MOA if I do my part.

Some basic things to check first would be a proper twist for the bullets you are shooting and, of course, all screws tight. Next I would look for bedding problems. Is the barrel free floated? Do you see any "rub" spots in the inletting? Check the barrel crown for damage. Then I would check the scope as Jim suggested. If you can borrow a really high power scope it would help to eliminate any sighting errors. It may be simply that the barrel doesn't like the bullet you are using but the groups you described usually indicate some other problem. good Luck.

Ray

Guys,

I can throw a Leu Vx3 3,5-10 x 50 on there, I have thought that the 4 power could be a limiting factor (and off course some scope problems too) so I will try that, The smith has checked most of the things you have sugeested but a re check wont hurt, I'll do that before the next range session. Bullets I have tried are Sierra 150 MK,150 GK, Norma 156 Oryx Nolser Partion 160 grs, Barnes XBT 150's (barrel mantled alot), Local produced bullets similar to barnes TSX), 140 grs Aframe. I have purchased 140 grs partation to see if these will group
better but I am starting to doubt if the bullets are the problem.
I have loaded with 56 and 57 grains of MRP, 52 grs of 201 all give me a higher muzzle velocity than the published data, should I back off a little and see if the accurancy improves ?

I will test the bullets in the 7mm-08 next week just to rule out that I dont have a bad batch.

May be I should try different mounts but the QR worked OK on my REM 700 338 RUM, but I need to eliminate problems one by one.

Thanks

Glen

I have a 280 and a 280PDK. I've had good luck with both using the Nosler 140s and MRP. After I could not longer get it here in the states I swithced to RL22. While the Part is a good performing bullet I've found them to be less accurate than the BT or the new Accubond. I use the 140 in my wifes 7X57 and 160s in my 280s.

I have a simular problem with a custom muaser & shilen but my problem is that the gunsmith cut the throat .3" longer than my magazine will hold. Are you sure you are close enough to lands.

What kind of brass are you using? some remington brass is junk. Have you checked the concentracy of your loads, since factory loads shoot worse rather than better this is not the probable problem.

I just spent about $600 to rebarrel arilfe when the scope was the problem. if the 3.5x10 doesn't fix the problem borrow a good fixed 6x scope..a 4 power scope can shoot 1-1.5" groups which is a long way from 4".

Lastly I would not rebarrel the rifle 280, I have 4 and they are all timperemental as can be.

You might want to try a different powder.I have had to try as many as four powders before finding a good combination.However the wandering zero does point to a bedding problem or possibly to stresses in the barrel itself.

quote:

I have loaded with 56 and 57 grains of MRP, 52 grs of 201 all give me a higher muzzle velocity than the published data, should I back off a little and see if the accurancy improves ?

kaldevass,
Drop that load with 52 grains Norma 201, it's not a load to use. Pressure is VERY high, about 69.000 psi at (Pmax). Try Norma URP or 204.

/JOHAN

Have you played with the bullet seating depth any at all? Just my opinion, but that is most often the critical factor. Every rifle I've worked up loads for had a preference for seating depth that made a greater difference than powder charge, etc.

Excluding mechanical issues, I'd do two things:
1) change the cartridge overall length so as to seat bullets .025" off the lands, then retest, however, I'd use VihtaVuori N-160 (or maybe one of the high energy 500 series powders)
2) readjust the factory ammunition to the same .025", then retest.

quote:

Originally posted by JOHAN:

quote:

I have loaded with 56 and 57 grains of MRP, 52 grs of 201 all give me a higher muzzle velocity than the published data, should I back off a little and see if the accurancy improves ?

kaldevass,
Drop that load with 52 grains Norma 201, it's not a load to use. Pressure is VERY high, about 69.000 psi at (Pmax). Try Norma URP or 204.

/JOHAN

Johan,

Thanks for the info actually checked what I had loaded and I am using 204 in the 280.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
Excluding mechanical issues, I'd do two things:
1) change the cartridge overall length so as to seat bullets .025" off the lands, then retest, however, I'd use VihtaVuori N-160 (or maybe one of the high energy 500 series powders)
2) readjust the factory ammunition to the same .025", then retest.

I have tried N-165 but not N-160 yet so I will try that. I started setting the bullets 0.078 off the lands and have now gone down to 0.059" of the lands I have seen no improvement, but will try .025".

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I have a 280 and a 280PDK. I've had good luck with both using the Nosler 140s and MRP. After I could not longer get it here in the states I swithced to RL22. While the Part is a good performing bullet I've found them to be less accurate than the BT or the new Accubond. I use the 140 in my wifes 7X57 and 160s in my 280s.

I have been using Remington and winchester brass. I have just got my hands on some Norma brass to test.The scope is the next thing to try.

quote:

I have ordered an new lothar barrel

Don't forget to have your gunsmith throat it for the bullet you want to shoot.

I,ve ownd 2 or 3 280s over the years, a good Powder seems to be H-4831, IMR 4350 is good too.
Belive it or not, I have a 280 ACK IMP and my frorming load with varget is a very accurate.
I would try some different powders...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by kaldevass:

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
Excluding mechanical issues, I'd do two things:
1) change the cartridge overall length so as to seat bullets .025" off the lands, then retest, however, I'd use VihtaVuori N-160 (or maybe one of the high energy 500 series powders)
2) readjust the factory ammunition to the same .025", then retest.

I have tried N-165 but not N-160 yet so I will try that. I started setting the bullets 0.078 off the lands and have now gone down to 0.059" of the lands I have seen no improvement, but will try .025".

Thanks

Let me add a bit more here. .025" is a good reference point for starting COL. Experience has taught me that bullet seating changes in increments of .010" net the best results, and that most bullets do best when seated somewhere between .020" and .050". Anything under .010" is a waste on hunting ammunition.

hELLO THE CAMPFIRE:
This is a mystery. I almost can not make my .280 shoot badly. I use 4350 and RL22.
Good luck.
Judge Sharpe

Some very good advice, as usuall, here is my best shot. I agree, first change the scope & start w/ a known ammo (factory), you need a baseline. I have found the .280 to be just slightly over bore & my lt.wt. M70 likes powders on the slow side. I have had best results w/ IMR4831, H4831sc & it is scary accurate (fpr a light wt. hunting rifle) & quite fast w/ IMR7828. I would try MRP & VV160 w/ 140-160gr bullets. Other than that, I find my .280 very accurate & not finicky. Some loads shoot better than others but I have never had anything shoot worse than 2"/100 & my M70 wears a very thin 23" bbl.

I once had a 30-06 with a Douglas 1 in 12" twist barrel that sat in one of the prettiest pieces of wood I have ever seen. A three shot group would run just about .375", even with most factory ammo and the worst it ecer grouped was .80". A wonder rifle you say? Not hardly. Say I sight in 3" high at 100 yards. Nice tight group. After letting the barrel cool down, I go for another group. Yup! Another very tight group, maybe 4" off to the left and 2" low. HUH! Maybe the scope is bad? Try another scope that is known to be OK and the same thing. The rifle has been torn down and rebedding at least three times. No help there. Finally, in desperation, I put the rifle in a McMillan synthetic stock. I don't get .375" groups anymore but the rifle is a consistant 1.0 to 1.25" gun regardless of what I run through it.
What brought this to mind was the following comments.

"I am running out of idea's as one moment the rifle will shoot 2 rounds next to each other and then the third 1,5" from them(shooter doing his part) . The next group and the first bullet hits 2" lower. I am really confussed as my 338 RUM and 7mm-08 with Lothar barrel all group under 1/2 MOA."

Maybe the stock is like the one that gave me trouble. I figure anytime some bird within 100 miles took a leak, the change in the humidity would affect the stock. Anyway, that was the first thing that crossed my mind. The second was possibly an improperly stress relieved barrel.
Paul B.

Guys

Thanks for all the help, still have a bunch of testing to do.

Seeing how its good enough for hunting, (but I am not happy with it) we hunted yesterday.

Dropped a young reindeer at 70 meters an nice clean shot and the animal dropped on the spot The 280 to the left.