rate this cartridge

29 May 2018, 12:28

416Tanzan

rate this cartridge

quote:
Originally posted by DIs:
Well, without 338/06 hunting experience, your rating does't mean much. Does it? That is why this ratings have little value.

The bullet does the work, the cartridge is only a delivery device.

A 338-06 is exactly like a 338 WM that was fired 75 yards further back. If someone wants to know what a 338-06 hits like then take any shot made from a 338WM and move the 338-06 shooter 75 yards closer. Your 338WM shot was 75 yards? Well, the 338-06 would have done the same at spitting distance. Basically, whatever can be done with a 338WM, can be done with a 338-06 as long as one gets closer. Since most effect of the 338WM in the first 200 yards is "overkill," the WM and -06 will be essentially equal over the first 200 yards. And since most hunting is done in the first 200 yards, anecdotal comparisons can rave about how the 338-06 and 338WM are WONDERFUL hunting tools.

Don't need 250 yards? There's always that cute little 338 Federal. Just get 150 yards closer than a 338WM, and most anything within 150 yards will go down like it was pole-axed. Lighter bullets will still work and open even out to 400 yards, just without the extra thump and hurt that the 338WM puts on animals.

29 May 2018, 17:34

theback40

Never used a 338/06, but have used a 338 mag on African game and 338 fed on moose.
I will be honest, I could have killed the same game with no troubles with a .308 also.

29 May 2018, 17:53

wildcat junkie

8mm-06 is just as good as the .338 version close up, and surpasses it as the range increases.

8x57IS loaded to the same pressure is equal.

29 May 2018, 18:19

adamhunter

I have not taken an elk with my 338/06 but have taken quite a few deer and African PG with it. I give it a 5. I would not hesitate to hunt anything in NA with it, including brown/grizzly bear. As for African, I would feel confident with it for everything except elephant/rhino.

29 May 2018, 18:47

416Tanzan

so are you guys saying that I should consider a
338 RCM?

29 May 2018, 19:53

ar corey

quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
so are you guys saying that I should consider a
338 RCM?

No, 338 RCM is a dead cartridge.

Build a 338-06 instead. It has everything:

- good to 500 yards with the 160 TTSX.
- good frontal area for elk, moose and bear.
- good recoil.
- 30-06 brass
- large magazine capacity with. 473"
- one of the most efficient cartridges available.
- build on a 26" barrel to nearly match WM shooting 24".

Barnes is getting 2925 out of there 185 TTSX and H4895 55.5 grains. 25" barrel.

29 May 2018, 20:24

416Tanzan

quote:
- 30-06 brass
- large magazine capacity with. 473"

Only two of your points differentiate the RCM from the -06.

If I were going to keep a full-length action and magazine, I'd probably stay with the flexibility of the 338WM.

29 May 2018, 20:32

ar corey

quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
quote:
- 30-06 brass
- large magazine capacity with. 473"

Only two of your points differentiate the RCM from the -06.

No, three points. The fact that the RCM is a dead cartridge differenciates it from the 338-06.

30 May 2018, 02:56

ar corey

quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
quote:
Originally posted by DIs:
Well, without 338/06 hunting experience, your rating does't mean much. Does it? That is why this ratings have little value.

The bullet does the work, the cartridge is only a delivery device.

A 338-06 is exactly like a 338 WM that was fired 75 yards further back. If someone wants to know what a 338-06 hits like then take any shot made from a 338WM and move the 338-06 shooter 75 yards closer. Your 338WM shot was 75 yards? Well, the 338-06 would have done the same at spitting distance. Basically, whatever can be done with a 338WM, can be done with a 338-06 as long as one gets closer. Since most effect of the 338WM in the first 200 yards is "overkill," the WM and -06 will be essentially equal over the first 200 yards. And since most hunting is done in the first 200 yards, anecdotal comparisons can rave about how the 338-06 and 338WM are WONDERFUL hunting tools.
Don't need 250 yards? There's always that cute little 338 Federal. Just get 150 yards closer than a 338WM, and most anything within 150 yards will go down like it was pole-axed. Lighter bullets will still work and open even out to 400 yards, just without the extra thump and hurt that the 338WM puts on animals.

185 grain TTSX @ 3000 fps out of a 338-06 from 26" hotload, equals slayer.

30 May 2018, 02:58

ar corey

That has the recoil of basically a 30-06. Braked with a Vais, 243 Winchester recoil.

30 May 2018, 03:07

ar corey

I should buy a Weatherby Vanguard 270 and use for deer, then rebarrel a Lother Walther 338-06.

The best news you are about to read all day is that Ted Gaillard is still making barrels. He just isn't taking any orders right now. He has a rotator cuff injury which limits his barrel production. He deserves prayer.

30 May 2018, 16:44

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by ar corey:
quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
quote:
- 30-06 brass
- large magazine capacity with. 473"

Only two of your points differentiate the RCM from the -06.

No, three points. The fact that the RCM is a dead cartridge differenciates it from the 338-06.

All three were good points too.

Look, if you're fixated on hunting with one of the '06-derivative odd-balls, then the .35 Whelen just makes more sense. It's been putting down big game for decades.

30 May 2018, 19:58

custombolt

YES!

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
on a scale of 1-5....one being totally unacceptable....five being the very best, how do you rate the .338-06 as a elk cartridge?

30 May 2018, 21:49

ar corey

quote:
Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
quote:
Originally posted by ar corey:
quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
quote:
- 30-06 brass
- large magazine capacity with. 473"

Only two of your points differentiate the RCM from the -06.

No, three points. The fact that the RCM is a dead cartridge differenciates it from the 338-06.

All three were good points too.

Look, if you're fixated on hunting with one of the '06-derivative odd-balls, then the .35 Whelen just makes more sense. It's been putting down big game for decades.

Can't, Ted doesn't make a. 358" caliber barrel. I want a Gaillard barrel on the 760. That would be funny if it turned the slide action into a sniper group.

30 May 2018, 21:52

ar corey

. 338 is enough frontal area.

30 May 2018, 21:55

Atkinson

I used the 35 Whelen and 338-06 back in the day on both elk, Moose, and in Africa for a long time or until the .338 Win. came out and I switched over, never to return.

I couldn't tell much difference in the 338-06s killing power over my 30-06 with 200 or 220 gr. bullets and anyone claiming to is delusional IMO..I still love my 30-06s btw..

I believe the .338 Win is the superior cartridge and kills a little quicker,shoots a little further perhaps, Ive used it since its birth and consider it the best all round cartridge for North America and for plainsgame in Africa, but not by a hell of a lot, and it gives me a little more confidence I suppose..Although Ive used the .338 win. a bit for DG, its a little lacking "at times" on that count much like the 243 is on deer and antelope.

I learned long ago the more powder capacity and a larger bullet is the obvious..and that recoil is the determination of choice..Choice of bullet and its construction is a must, especially in lighter calibers.

To quote a 338-06 is good to 400 yards and a 338 is best at 500 yards is foolishness.It would be hard to determine that all things equal.. The difference in trajectory in all these hunting calibers is miniamal and within a few inches of each other..

One has to make his own determination on such a subject and expect his final judgement will change as time and experience takes place. It will never be black or white, usually gray.

30 May 2018, 21:55

ar corey

Barnes doesn't make a large selection for. 358" caliber. I would build a 358 Norma Magnum if I was wanting to push a 200 grain bullet.

30 May 2018, 22:03

ar corey

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I used the 35 Whelen and 338-06 back in the day on both elk, Moose, and in Africa for a long time or until the .338 Win. came out and I switched over, never to return.

I couldn't tell much difference in the 338-06s killing power over my 30-06 with 200 or 220 gr. bullets and anyone claiming to is delusional IMO..I still love my 30-06s btw..

I believe the .338 Win is the superior cartridge and kills a little quicker,shoots a little further perhaps, Ive used it since its birth and consider it the best all round cartridge for North America and for plainsgame in Africa, but not by a hell of a lot, and it gives me a little more confidence I suppose..Although Ive used the .338 win. a bit for DG, its a little lacking "at times" on that count much like the 243 is on deer and antelope.

I learned long ago the more powder capacity and a larger bullet is the obvious..and that recoil is the determination of choice..Choice of bullet and its construction is a must, especially in lighter calibers.

To quote a 338-06 is good to 400 yards and a 338 is best at 500 yards is foolishness.It would be hard to determine that all things equal.. The difference in trajectory in all these hunting calibers is miniamal and within a few inches of each other..

One has to make his own determination on such a subject and expect his final judgement will change as time and experience takes place. It will never be black or white, usually gray.

Most important is accuracy. That's why I want a Gaillard barrel.

31 May 2018, 20:39

Atkinson

The best post on this thread was by Vapodog, He nixed the .338 because recoil was too intense, being honest with ones self as to recoil will always put more steaks on your table..So few admit to recoil...

As Ive aged recoil has become problematic due to age and some injurys, my answer with my beloved .338 has been the .338 with a brake on it, and since Im deaf already that's no problem! and I can really shoot that bad puppy! btw, I do carry this little string with ear plugs in it while hunting, if your with me just remember why the good Lord gave us humans fingers instead of hoofs and paws, stick them in your ears before I shoot.

01 June 2018, 02:31

crbutler

It’s junk. The .318 WR is better, as it was blessed by WDM Bell.

J/K.

If a .308 works as an elk round, the .338/06 will work every bit as well, if not better.

01 June 2018, 08:03

lee440

.318 Express , the original 338/06. I use it and it knocks 'em dead! It got the John Taylor seal of approval too!

01 June 2018, 09:29

ramrod340

WOW guess I rated it a touch low.

In 1991 I took a 280 rem Norma case blew it out to .46 40deg at the shoulder and moved the shoulder forward to 2.18". In that brass I had right at 80 grs of water capacity. Used the 210 Part then the 200 Accubond. While 3000fps was doable from a 24" I was only getting 3 loadings. So dropped to 2900 now brass lasts 6-7 loading. Since 1991 it has accounted for all the elk I have taken.

Will my 340PDK or the 338-06 do anything the 338 Mags or the 8mm-06 won't do probably not. Has it ever failed me nope. Sure more pleasant to shoot and you do get 2 more down than the mags. Only poor shooting would give you the need for the extra rounds. The 338-06 and the equivalents won't fail you on elk.

01 June 2018, 14:30

ar corey

quote:
Originally posted by ramrod340:
WOW guess I rated it a touch low.

In 1991 I took a 280 rem Norma case blew it out to .46 40deg at the shoulder and moved the shoulder forward to 2.18". In that brass I had right at 80 grs of water capacity. Used the 210 Part then the 200 Accubond. While 3000fps was doable from a 24" I was only getting 3 loadings. So dropped to 2900 now brass lasts 6-7 loading. Since 1991 it has accounted for all the elk I have taken.

Will my 340PDK or the 338-06 do anything the 338 Mags or the 8mm-06 won't do probably not. Has it ever failed me nope. Sure more pleasant to shoot and you do get 2 more down than the mags. Only poor shooting would give you the need for the extra rounds. The 338-06 and the equivalents won't fail you on elk.

So basically you did more capacity than an ackley in the 280 Remington. Nice.

01 June 2018, 15:42

p dog shooter

I used my 338-06 to shoot some critters it work.

No better no worst then others in the same class.
.
If that's what you have take it elk hunting most of the time I take my 300WM.

01 June 2018, 23:46

ramrod340

quote:
So basically you did more capacity than an ackley in the 280 Remington

Around 11% vs the AI 4%. The thinner Norma brass helps as well. Can't remember how much the brass added. Basically a Gibbs shaped case or take the 340 Howell and blow it out a touch more. I'm usually a couple grains above the Howell with a shorter neck so even more net capacity.

I did it to match my other PDKs loved it so much it is my go too for ELK sized game. I also love to be different.

02 June 2018, 00:13

ar corey

quote:
Originally posted by ramrod340:
quote:
So basically you did more capacity than an ackley in the 280 Remington

Around 11% vs the AI 4%. The thinner Norma brass helps as well. Can't remember how much the brass added. Basically a Gibbs shaped case or take the 340 Howell and blow it out a touch more. I'm usually a couple grains above the Howell with a shorter neck so even more net capacity.

I did it to match my other PDKs loved it so much it is my go too for ELK sized game. I also love to be different.

. 473 - . 460= a straight walled case. Did you shorten the neck too?

02 June 2018, 02:51

ramrod340

quote:
473 - . 460= a straight walled case. Did you shorten the neck too

Yep straight enough. The lack of taper has never been an issue. But I agree it is straight. But since all my chambers are cut with the same reamer and dies formed to the case I've not had issues.

The true 400 Whelen is .458 hard to read the difference.

Case length is 2.505" Basically what a 280 case has remaining after it is fire formed.

08 June 2018, 05:28

416RigbyHunter

quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
It would have been good enough for Elmer Keith, even with his big-bore preferences, and probably has better bullet choices than the 35 Whelen.

I use a 338 WM and we only have 'Indian elk' here, so I can't speak personally about the .338-06 on wapiti.

Not so, there are populations of pure elk and red/elk hybrids here, just need to know where to look.
Many are deer farm releases or escapees.

Cheers.

08 June 2018, 13:46

sambarman338

Sorry, 416...,
give me a clue where they are and I might have a look for one, esp. if wapiti taste better than sambar.

18 June 2018, 23:29

Atkinson

I can load my 338 Win down to a 338-06, but can't load a 338-06 up to a 338 Win..I reasoned that out 40 years ago...Same size rifle, same size action, no difference in recoil..

I see the difference as the .338 Win is just more of the same good stuff....

Comparing calibers is a waste of time, you simply cannot justify ballistics to make one better than another, all things equal.

19 June 2018, 00:15

ZekeShikar

quote:
Originally posted by DIs:
My question is How many people that commented actually have killed an elk with a 338/06 or for that matter even own one? I own one and have killed elk with it. I rate it at a 5.

Good question and I'll add: How many folks who tout the 243 for elk have actually ever used one on elk? If they had a limited tag for a trophy bull, would they still say the 243 is what they'd take?

Zeke

19 June 2018, 03:23

memtb

A #4 - within reasonable ranges for the velocity produced and a quality bullet used!

The .338 WM would score at a #5.
memtb

19 June 2018, 06:21

505ED

I'd giver 'er a 4.5+

19 June 2018, 12:58

416Tanzan

quote:
Originally posted by 505ED:
I'd giver 'er a 4.5+

That's inflation for you.

Give it a 4, pretty good, and use it

19 June 2018, 20:25

MARK H. YOUNG

The more I work with the 338-06 the more I like it. I had given up on it as the rifle I had just would not shoot worth beans. Well after I sold my components and sent the rifle to be re barreled the smith discovered a cracked stock. The rifle now with stock repaired and reinforced shoots very well indeed. 210 TTSX 2700 fps and 185 TTSX 2900 fps will pretty much cover everything except the biggest of beasties with negligible recoil and blast. This one is also very accurate. I'm going to rate it at a solid 4.5.

Mark

19 June 2018, 22:25

dpcd

Several good answers here. Now, mine; I rate the 35 Whelen a 5 ( I use a 350 Rem Mag just because it is unique; same ballistics), and the 338-06 as equal. (just because I like the 35 caliber)
I used to build 338 RUMs; ( I think the first one broke my shoulder test firing it; had to brake it as it was very light). They burn 100 grains of powder but only give you 300 more fps. IE, the 338-06 gives you 90 percent of the velocity, with half the powder, recoil and brass cost. No one shoots far enough to really use that extra velocity.
I do still shoot a 338 Lapua but it weights 12 pounds and has a huge brake.

23 June 2018, 03:13

Atkinson

I settled on the 338 as my favorite elk rifle as have many and its earned its rep the hard way over a long period of time based solely on its results,mostly on elk, So many if the locals who have lived amongst them and have traded in their 270s and 06s for .338s, many in Montana, Utah and Idaho have done just that, self included..I hear its praise at the local coffee shops every season with expanded bullets tossed on the coffee tables.

But I would never condemn the .338-06, 35 Whelen, and such calibers or the 270 or 30-06, I just feel the .338 with its heavy bullets, relatively high velocity and wonderful sectional density for weight of bullet gives me an edge, nothing more..I have gotten a higher number of elk on the ground quicker than with any other caliber, that good enough for me to be a dyed in the wool 338'er!

That said if Im actually hunting horseback, not just packing in, I want a lighter weight rifle like my Savage 99 308 or my pre 64 mod 70 fwt. It really doesn't make a lot of difference what size hole you put in an elks heart or lungs..

23 June 2018, 05:49

B L O'Connor

quote:
Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
quote:
Originally posted by DIs:
Well, without 338/06 hunting experience, your rating does't mean much. Does it? That is why this ratings have little value.

The bullet does the work, the cartridge is only a delivery device.

A 338-06 is exactly like a 338 WM that was fired 75 yards further back. [ . . . ]

Admittedly, I've never killed an elk. But I've never seen a cleaner, clearer or more concise expression of what should be patently obvious to everyone. Wish to hell I'd found those words.

This is a principle. It is eternal.

26 June 2018, 22:17

drongo

quote:
Originally posted by ar corey:
I would assume he meant rate the 338-06 at its best, probably something around a 210 TTSX in an Ackley configuration, shooting a 0.25" MOA group.

I don't get the whole 6.5 craze when the .277" and .284" markets are so lucrative. What can a 6.5-300 Weatherby do that the 270 Weatherby couldn't? Practicality wise.

Sell 6.5 rifles. Why I shoot a 30:06!

quote:
Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
Again with the comparisons/ratings...my 338-06 was built to shoot the old, long 270 gr Speers therefore it has a LONG throat and I can load it to the gills and get velos way over what is considered "Average" for published data for the 338-06.

Wanna comparison...I have chrono'ed my goto load, 225 gr Horn/IMR 4320 26" 338-06 along side a factory 24" 338 Mag, 250 gr Win PP and both were within about 20 fs of each other. Yeah the Maggy had 25 gr on mine and of course anyone that's done this game for any length can improve on both cartridges in many ways. Besides I've seen several elk taken with a 100 gr 250 Sav factory equivalents in a Sav 99, so whats the point???

Both cartridges will do the job...but in todays world and if you want to believe all the U-toobs, the 6.5 and 7mm Noslers are taking the Elk hunting game by storm so WHY would you even WANT to muck about with any other cal/cartridge? Besides just how many wildcat iterations of 338-06 are out there that are even faster...rate WHAT?...compare WHAT?...bullet, velocity, cartridge efficiency, rifle, barrel length...SCOPE?

I feel that "rating" is a total put down for whatever you want to rate...and comparisons just pi** on both the "ratee" and the "rator" and total simple mindedness...it is doing a disservice to BOTH...or just wanting to start another dust-up...too much of that goes on anyway and isn't really helping those looking for good data to work with.

Good Hunting