Back to the original point: the 30-30 has the luxury of having a bullet designed for its ballistics without compromise for faster cartridges. That is why it is so effective at 1500 fps or even lower. Lots and lots of 10" and 12" Contenders kill deer at 100 yds or farther with factory ammo that never shoots faster than 1600 or so at the muzzle.

Was looking at Federal's ballistics on their new 170 grain Grand Slam factory load for the 30-30. At 300 yards, the bullet is traveling over 1500 fps and packing 865 ft-lbs of energy. Pretty ho-hum figures, until you realize that those figures exceed the velocity and energy levels of a factory hunting load out of my 41 magnum revolver at the muzzle. And who doesn't think the 41 Maggie wouldn't drop any 4 legged deer/elk/caribou/moose at point blank range? Now granted, I ain't gonna get that velocity out of a 20 inch 30-30 carbine, but still... we do underesimate the power of the little 30-30 don't we? Those figures make my 7x57 Mauser and 6.5x55 Swede look like cannons!!

You've still got to put the bullet in the right spot ! Energy figures dont mean a hell of a lot unless you're talking about the same cartridge with different bullets.

The 1 1/2mi thing with a 22lr is a myth at best. I know it say's it on the box but unless you had hurricane force winds behind it, it ain't gonna happen. We used to shoot behind a steam plant years ago that sat on the mississippi river. On a calm day I've shoot out across the river with a 22lr. No matter what angle you hold the gun it's not going to shoot anywere near what they say it will on the box.

Terry

I think the point should be made that, didn't the barrel on this gun flop around in a 3" circle. We all know this was totally a luck shot, can't it be fair to say that the barrel recoiled up the 3 inches thus by luck or some act of god prolly a direct result of the gun being so inaccurate some how found its way to the target. I think what would be telling is to figure out how fast a thurty thurty would be going at 700 yd heck even a 30-378, unless fired from a bench by a shooter that knew his rifle inside and out, it very well take alot of luck to make such a shot

Dogger -



Leaving out the humour regarding the old-timer's "long" shot, I think your post bears more consideration by more shooters. It makes a very valid point.



When it comes to what makes any particular cartridge most effective on game, I would list "hunting ability" as the N0. 1 consideration.



Put it another way, my first wife was a good mule-deer hunter with her M'73 Winchester carbine in .44-40. She enjoyed hunting, looked at the hunt (not the dead deer-body) as the goal of going hunting, and sooner or later always managed to "injun" up within 40-60 yards of some skookum buck. It was her that made the cartridge effective.



So too, I suspect that it is the hunter who makes any other cartridge successful, by learning to hunt & stalk within a range for which the cartridge is effective.



Alberta Canuck

I went back and read the original posters post, and it doesn't say anything about 700 yards, that came later. so I was simply replying to the correct post...

Some of you got off track about 700 yard shooting..not me....

At 700 yards, nothing is suitable for deer, that is simply too far and nobody can predict a proper hit..A good shot will wound it and a bad shot won't hit it as a rule...

Sorry I didn't realize we were talking 700 yards, or I would have ignored the conversation....

Cowboy
Using factory MV's (it's to early to figgure barrel length/MV losses)
30-30 Rem 170gr sp 2200fps MV 700yd 909fps
30-30 Rem 150gr sp 2390fps MV 700yd 824fps
30-338Wby 180gr X, 3450fps MV 700yd 2175fps

My grandfather proved the killing power of the 25-35 many, many times. He swore it worked better than ANY other caliber available.

Of course his game of choice was 10 lb Largemouth Bass from the Wacissa River .