Medium bore Elk rifle on a $1000 budget?

22 March 2002, 12:17

<Arturis>

Before I get on with my situation, let me just say that this is the best shooting/hunting site on the web.

I have a good friend who has invited me to hunt elk with him in Idaho this fall. My parents bought me license and tags for my birth day, but I want to buy a rifle to use. My 7-08 is not enough gun in my opinion although my friend "the elk hunter" says it's fine. I am looking to buy a new rifle this spring 300 Win+. Since I am still in school I want to spend less than a grand on rifle, mounts, scope and dies. But I also don't want to buy anything cheap, fragile, or that I will feel the need to upgrade anytime soon. Suggestions? Input? Ideas on chambering? I can always borrow a rifle if I have to, but I'd rather buy one of my own and work up a load for it this summer.

Thanks for your help:

Save a cow, eat a vegetarian!

22 March 2002, 12:39

<Boyd Heaton>

Win M70 Classic Stainless in 338 Win Mag.Around $650.00...4-12 Nikon Monarch...$340.00.Leupold base's and Burris Ring's.....about $50.00....Best I can do....

------------------
I HUNT LONG RANGE.AND YES I USE MATCHKING'S.

22 March 2002, 12:56

Paul H

Ruger M77 Mk II allweather $400-450 on sale, and a leupold VX-I for $200, this is as solid a set up in an over the counter gun you'll find, and it includes rings. I'd also recomend you consider a 338 win mag over the 300 win. I'd take it to a gunsmith and spend $30-40 having the trigger tuned. If he says there is nothing to be done to the trigger and it needs a replacement, then he is a mechanic, and not a gunsmith, ie the only thing he knows how to do is turn screws and replace parts.

If you don't have a good set of hunting boots, or pack, or clothing, et al, put the savings on the rifle/scope into that gear.

22 March 2002, 13:19

DaveC

Welcome to the forum.

First off, let me say that your friend is right about the 7-08 being enough. It won't serve for every possible scenario, but it will cover a majority of them by using Remington ammo loaded with Nosler partitions and proper shot placement.
You didn't mention if you currently reload.
As far as rifles go, Ruger, Remington, Savage and Winchester are the basics and there are others as well. You should go to a gun shop and closely inspect what they have in stock and see what you like and what fits you well. Features to look for are: style of safety (the winchester 3 position vs. the remington on-off for example), action - controlled round feed (winchester) or push feed (remington), magazine type - detachable or internal, stock material - wood, laminate or fiber. Do you want iron sights on the rifle? These are all things that you must consider.
As for chamberings: there are more options available now than at any time before. If you must have a magnum, good ones start at the 7mm Rem, .300 Win, .300 WSM, .300 Rem Ultra, .300 Wby, .338 Win, .340 Wby and keep going up. The recoil with any of these will be more to much more than your 7-08. It depends on your tolerance.
Personal opinion on this, but the .30-06 is very good indeed and very versatile.
A new magnum rifle, mounts, scope and dies for under $1,000.00 might be tought to do.
However, if you don't mind a used rifle, you can find countless magnums on the used gun racks that have the "shot 20 times and traded in" look to them. This would be an excellent way of upgrading and staying under your $1,000.00 budget. It might already come with a good scope.
The main factor in any rifle you have or buy is practice and lots of it. You need to know what both you and the rifle are capable of.
I am sure that I have missed a few things, but others will add to it.
Good luck.

22 March 2002, 13:49

<Gary Rihn>

Welcome to the forum!

I'd recommend that you visit a gun shop or three, and check out some rifles in person. I personally have a strong Remington preference, but must admit that the Ruger stock fits real well, and you get a lot of gun for your money. Shoulder some different rifles & see if one just "feels" better to you. Fit and feel mean a lot.

For caliber, be realistic. Will you get to hunt elk again, or will it be mainly WV whitetails? A 338 Mag is about ideal for elk, but a bit much for deer. A 300 Mag or 7mm Mag is closer to a compromise. But honestly, a good old 30-06 will do it all for you. Don't get too wrapped up in a "specialty" caliber or gun.

For optics, it's hard to go wrong with a Leupold. Either one of the new Vari-X 1 or Vari-X II models, or look for a used one to save a few bucks. Unless it was truly abused, a used Leupold represents a great value.

I wish you the best of luck!

22 March 2002, 14:53

<MontanaMarine>

Since you already have a 7-08, You may want to consider a 7mm Rem Mag if stocking one diameter bullet for both rounds appeals to you. Just a simplicity thing since you mentioned reloading.

7mm Rem Mag, 300 WinMag, 338 Winmag are all great deer to elk rounds. Personally, my large gun is a .338 WinMag. Good Luck! MM

22 March 2002, 15:06

<Arturis>

I really don't need a 338, but my 7-08 covers everything I could possibly hunt here in WV unless they start allowing elk hunting. I shoot Dad's 8mm Rem Mag and my uncles 300 Wby fine, and I fit the factory stocks on most rifles ok. I like pretty wood as much as anybody, but a laminate or plastic stock is probably more practical. Most plastic factory stocks are kinda flimsy. I guess if I had to pick it would be laminate. I'd like to keep the weight down, and a back up detachable peep would be cool if I could swing it. I am sorta worried about buying used, it's really sort of a crap shoot. I don't have enough money to fix something that is broken.

The 30-06 is really not a big step up from my 7-08, but is probably the most common elk cartridge there is. I want something a little more. Too bad nobody chambers a 35 Whelen or 338-06 from the factory. That would be more usefull to me than a 338 Win Mag. But I can load a 338 down too. I don't know.

As for scopes I was thinking a 2-7 leopold or Burris on a weaver type base. Doesn't somebody make a detachable peep sight that attaches to a weaver base? That would be trick, but I may not have the $.

As for brand, Dad is a Remington man, but I really don't have a favorite. The winchester safety is nice, an adjustable trigger is nice too. Free rings is good, and saves me some money. Winchesters run about 650-700 and will eat up too much of my budget, but they have the best plastic stock. Rugers are ugly, but their basic blued/wood stock model is cheap. My 7-08 is a Remington 700, but I don't really have any special feeling for it either. Thanks for your help:

Save a cow, eat a vegetarian!

22 March 2002, 15:36

<71 Win>

I beleive that Ruger has a 35 Whelen out this year as a special run item. If this is what your interested in you might want to check it out.

22 March 2002, 16:30

<abnrigger>

Arturis,

Your parents sound like nice folks.

You should be able to buy a really nice big bore magnum and scope for less than $1000.

I picked up two of my big bore elk rifles off of the used gun rack for less than that. One is a browning A-bolt in .338 win mag it only cost me $400. I think whoever owned it took it to the range once and found out it kicked a bit too much for them. I put a Leupold Vari X II 3X9 on it for $200 and bought a set of dies all for less than $700. The other is a BAR grade II in 300 win mag that already had a decent scope on it Redfield 3X9 widefield in swing over mounts it cost me $700. I have seen quite a few big bores that are reasonably priced like these were down here in the Houston area.

22 March 2002, 17:10

Seamus O'Grady

One thing you could do, if you want a .35 Whelen or .338-06, is to buy a cheap rifle that has a .30-06 length action and standard case head diameter (.473) and buy a .338 or .358-cal. barrel. Take the action to a gunsmith and have him install and chamber the barrel. Since you will ditch the old barrel anyway, all that really needs to be in good shape is the action and stock, but you could replace the stock with a Cabela's or Ramline (about 100 bucks). That come to about $200 for the barrel, $100 for the stock if you replace it, and maybe $200 for gunsmithing. You can then throw a set of dies and a scope together for about $200.

22 March 2002, 20:20

Arild Iversen

Arturis
Iï¿½m with Paul H all the way !!
Alredy having a 7-08 in the rack, the next step up is the magnificent 338 win mag.
Buy the Ruger / Leupold set up, and it will serve you many many years to come as your elk / big bear rifle.
It kicks a little, but is actally wery comfortable to shoot ones you get used to it

I have the same rig, using it for moose and red deer, and I ï¿½m wery satisfied with it.

Lots of other combos will do just as good, but with the Ruger you also get a pair of integral scope rings as well, and it is a rock solid set up IMO.

Anyway...welcome to the best forum there is, and good luck with your elk hunt !!

Regards Arild

22 March 2002, 22:44

<Gary Rihn>

quote:
Originally posted by Arturis:
Too bad nobody chambers a 35 Whelen or 338-06 from the factory.

Remington used to chamber their M700 in 35 Whelen. Don't be afraid to buy a used gun in good condition. No more of a crap shoot than a new one any more.

(As a matter of fact, my gunsmith has a 35 Whelen M700 take-off barrel sitting in his shop right now).

22 March 2002, 23:47

Pete E

Arturis,

Remember the 7mm in the shape of the 7x57mm has a long history in Africa and was used with great success on everything from the smallest plains game to elephant!
The 7-08 and the 7x57mm are pretty similar and as already mentioned the secret would be using premium bullets and picking your shots.

Now, if you really want a new rifle suitable for elk take a look at the various Remchesters available in .35Whellen.. or as my personal choice would be in your shoes, a CZ 550 American in 9.3x62 fitted with CZ rings and a used M8 6x42 Leupold. You will find quite a lot of praise for the 9.3x62 over in the African forum..ammo is not a problem if you reload.

Pete

23 March 2002, 03:03

Major Caliber

Go to Wal-Mart and buy a Weatherby in .300 Weatheby $388, or get a Savage in 7mm Rem Mag with scope $299.

23 March 2002, 03:39

<Arturis>

Thanks for all the input guys. It really is a big help. I found several rifles that intrest me somewhat. There is a Remington 700 Custom BDL in 338 or 375 Ultra for $530 new. Or various configurations of Ruger in 338 Win from $445-600 or the Winchester Classic Lt for $620. The Winchester and Remington have open sights included, but if I swallow hard and buy a Ruger with the old style plastic stock I might save enough to put a detachable peep sight on it. This is something I really want if I can swing it. The basic Ruger with either wood stock (which I like fairly well) or the new style plastic stock runs $440-460 but with no sights. 475+350+40=865 not enough to put sights on, but enough to replace the trigger if I can't find someone to work on it. The Ruger trigger is not adjustable, right?

I have heard lots about the 9.3x62 on this site. Anyone that puts it down looses all respect. But I can't find it in my manuals anywhere. The 286 grain partition looks like a perfect elk bullet. How does a CZ rifle compare to the Ruger? The CZ has a adjustable trigger right? Doesn't the saftey work opposite everything else in the world? Is there any web site that has retail prices for CZ's? Do they make a 338? They come with rings too, don't they? Is the 9.3x62 worth it?

I'm sorry to ask so many questions, but I will not have a second chance to do this right. By the way, I am all set with a pack and field glasses (borrowed) and I have a great pair of Rockies already broken in.

Thanks Again;

Save a cow, eat a vegetarian!

[This message has been edited by Arturis (edited 03-22-2002).]

23 March 2002, 03:47

<Arturis>

I forgot to mention that I checked out the Ruger 35 Whelen, It has sights, and a 22" barrel which I like, but it is only offered in the old style plastic stock (I hate) and is $100 more than the same rifle in 338, why?

Save a cow, eat a vegetarian!

23 March 2002, 05:30

Battle River

quote:
However, if you don't mind a used rifle, you can find countless magnums on the used gun racks that have the "shot 20 times and traded in" look to them. This would be an excellent way of upgrading and staying under your $1,000.00 budget. It might already come with a good scope.
[/B]

I firmly suggest to go this route. Most 300-338 rifles are not used much and there are lots of them floating around at gunshops. The best way is to see which people are trustworthy and when a nice piece comes in, they give you dibs. I have purchased my best rifles that way and will likely never buy a new unit again. Up here you can get into a nice used unit, M70 300-338push feed with decent glass for 700Can at a show or on the rack. That nwould even leave room for your best gear......quality Binos

23 March 2002, 05:33

Pete E

Arturis,

I have an old Ruger M77 Mk11 Allweather and I love the gun apart from the looks of the stock!
Having said that I think the CZ 550 is the best value rifle in its class on the market today. Out of the box they are usually very accurate and come with decent triggers... My
Ruger took two trips to the smith to get its trigger right.

Take a look how many people are using the CZ's for the basis of a custom rifle...the CZ 550 is what the pre64 Winchester was 50 years ago...

Another possiblity would be a Tikka. Again they are a good solid rifle but they have a bit more alloy on them than the CZ and generally run I bit dearer here in the UK. Tikka do produce a very nice SS/synthetic although I'm not sure in what calibres.

I have yet to meet anybody who was dissappointed after buying a CZ....

Peter

23 March 2002, 05:50

John Frazer

Weatherby chambers the .338-06 in two models but MSRP is $1400-1500, don't know about the real world price.

9.3x62 data is in the Nosler or Vihtavuori manual, probably others.

If I were you and wanted a new rifle, I'd probably haunt the pawnshops for your rifle action of choice (personally I would be watching for a Mark X or sporterized Mauser) in .270 or .30-06 with a trashed barrel or some kind of ugly hand-whittled stock to knock the price down.

Alternatively you could check into the price of an unbarreled Mark X action from Charles Daly.

Replace or rework the trigger if necessary, get it rebarreled to .338-06 or .35 Whelen and put it in a Butler Creek stock. Leupold 4x scope for $200-ish and some kind of cross-slot scope mount like Weaver, Burris or Warne.

If it were me I'd just take my Mark X .30-06 with 200-gr. Partitions.

Have fun on your hunt, where in Idaho are you going?

John

23 March 2002, 05:50

Paul H

I would recomend staying away from the ultra mags, they will kick the crap out of you, and honestly don't offer that great of an increase in performance for the trememndious increase in recoil.

If you're looking for a solid hunting rifle, IMHO, the Ruger is the most gun for the $. Since you already have small bore, which in my mind is 30 cal and under, then take the jump to a medium bore. Since you handload, use a 210 gr partition at 2700 fps, recoil will be relatively mild, and you can work up to heavier bullets and more speed, though the 210 @ 2700 is outstanding for whitetail up to elk. Remember, you can always load a big gun down to little gun levels, but you can't make a little gun into a big gun.

Despite my preference for the 35 caliber, I'll freely admit that the 338 win mag is the NA standard medium bore. Anywhere big game is hunted, factory ammo is available. That isn't the case for more esoteric rounds. Even if you handload, it is still prudent for the traveling hunter to have a chambering that you can get factory fodder for, should the need arise.

23 March 2002, 15:07

<bigdog>

Welcome to the forum,

I agree with Paul stay with the average off the shelf cartidges. The Ultra mags will beat you to death.

I am partial to the 358 bore and 35 Whelen but the 338 win would be a fine addition to your 7-08.

I picked up two Ruger M77's tang safety models for $365.00 ea. both in 338 Win. I added the VAR-II For 189.00, then 60.00 for the trigger. With 225 gr handloads at 2880 fps groups .75" all day. The second one is at the gunsmith for a re-barrel.

I think you can find a lot of quality rifles on the used rack. Just be patient.

just my .02 worth

25 March 2002, 15:25

matt salm

I'd definitely vote for the 338 Win mag in whatever rifle you decide to buy. Perfect for elk, and I use mine on deer too with the 200 gr Nosler Bal tip. 7mm-08 and a 338 would complement each other quite well. I personally favor the Win rifles myself (and really don't know why--it's just what I end up with!).

Good luck with your elk hunt.

------------------
Shoot straight, shoot often.
Matt

25 March 2002, 16:47

<MAKATAK>

I have a nice 338-06 on a Rem 700 action I built a long time ago and like very well, but today I would buy a cheap Savage long action 30-06 or 7mm mag, then have a gunsmith get you a barrel from Pac-Nor chambered for the 338-06 and show you how easy it is to switch barrels. Put the rest of the left over 500 bucks in a high quality scope and good stock. Or, just use the 30-06 or 7mm Mag with a Nosler Partition, Swift, Barnes, Bear Claw or other premium bullet and save even more money.

I have a Savage 110 in 30-06 that shoots so good I want to throw rocks at some of my other "custom" rifles. It's ugly with the original stock, but I have a semifinished, laminated I am getting ready to sand out, finish and pillar bed that should make pretty and shoot even better.

Lots of ways to jump here and all the advice is good. Work through it, mull it over, decide which fits you best, then go for it and enjoy your hunts.

25 March 2002, 19:26

<ovis>

Arthuris,

The CZ is available in a lot of calibers and a new one can be had off the NET for as little as $429.00. An awful lot of rifle for the money.

26 March 2002, 04:04

<bjk>

Check out the new Handloader mag, I beleive it has an article about the 9.3x62 getting the same velocity as the 35 Whelen 250gr bullet, but with a 290gr round. If I remember correctly, it was put btwn the 35 Whelen and the 338 as far as performance goes?

26 March 2002, 04:59

Dutch

I'd buy the Ruger in 35 Whelen, and swap out the stock. Put on a 1.5x6 Leupold, burris or Grand Slam, and go practice. JMO, Dutch.

26 March 2002, 16:24

<jeremy w>

If I were you I would take the $1000 and buy a few boxes of Barnes-X bullets in 7mm, a pair of Danner boots, a good packframe, and a membership to a health club so you can get in shape. The rifle is only a small part of a much larger picture.
If you want to buy a new gun get whatever you want.
Be aware that when you tell people out here that you bought a new rifle just for an elk hunt that we will probably label you a "yuppy", hehe.

26 March 2002, 17:29

Dark Paladin

Dude get a 358 norma, i got mine a custom mause for 795, hits harder than a 375 H&H belive it or not, if you dont belive me go lookin a shooting mag at the ftbls of a 375 shure its not the long range toy, but up close its a great gun.

03 April 2002, 15:21

ElCaballero

Man I would love to have your budget. I started with a 30-30 win and traded an swapped up for a year. I finally got what I wanted a Savage m/111 300 win mag. It was brand new and the asking price at a local gunshop was $319. I took it to a gunsmith had a muzzle break, scope mounted, new recoil pad, had the chamber lapped, and replaced the plastic trigger guard for another $400. What more could you want?

03 April 2002, 16:35

Mark R Dobrenski

Jeremy W has some great words-especially the part about getting into shape.

That said I have a couple of ideas on a new rifle. In town here there are a couple that would fit the bill quite well.

Savage bolt 7 mag for $279 new put a pair of rings on it and a 3-9 Leo. You'd have plenty of money left over for practice and health club memberships.

Number two is a Weatherby 375 (there econo version) for about $600, same scope and you still are under $1000.

The Wallmart 300 Weatherby is a super idea!!

Just my thoughts

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog