Are my bullets tumbling??

09 February 2003, 11:57

<Win94>

Here's the deal guys, my .38-55 is a tack driver with the Winchester factory slow pokes. My reloads of 28 grains of H4198 pushing a 220 grain Hornady flat nose, are tearing the paper in a very elongated manner almost like the bullet is hitting the taget sideways!!?? Why does the factory ammo not do this?? Is it my recipe or my seating depth?? I am mystified and need some experienced help.

09 February 2003, 12:18

waksupi

I suspect this has to do with your rifling twist. Drop your load down and see if they will shoot.

10 February 2003, 07:22

<Win94>

I dropped my load down to 24 grains. Its a little more accurate but the hole is still elongated. What gives?? Wrong primer?? Wrong seating depth?? LIke i saud the factory load shoots nice tite round holes and groups well, but my reloads have an elongated hole but are grouping about 3/4" at 50 yards. I need some suggestions or experiences!!

10 February 2003, 07:35

hunter_fish

Elongated hole in just paper, hum I would try shooting one in some other back stops. I would reckon they wouldn't group that well tumbling.

[ 02-09-2003, 22:37: Message edited by: hunter_fish ]

10 February 2003, 07:56

<Win94>

Thats a good point. My backstop is plywood that is shot up real bad.

11 February 2003, 05:16

waksupi

I think I would play with the seating depth next. I recently was experimenting with a cast bullet in 6.5X55, and most shots were keyholing at 100 yards, but all still in about a six inch group. I moved the bullet out to engage the rifling, keyholing disappeared, and group went down to about 1 3/4".

11 February 2003, 07:13

<Gerard Schultz>

What weight is the factory bullet and what speed is it doing?

11 February 2003, 15:58

<Win94>

The factory bullet is 255 grains at 1300 fps.

12 February 2003, 09:59

Flip

I have seen the same thing out of my dads 303, but don't know why, the same bullets go well in another 303

12 February 2003, 02:16

<Win94>

Maybe my next experiment will be playing with the seating depth??? Its my goal to make this lever action shootable for this fall.

12 February 2003, 04:29

<t_bob38>

You might try slugging the bore, then measure your bullets.

12 February 2003, 05:03

<eldeguello>

Seating depth should NOT cause tumbling...This is a sign of an understabilized bullet, and if your handloads have a FASTER muzzle velocity than factory loads, they might be a little OVER-STABILIZED, but would not tumble from this cause. What bullets are you using? A cast bullet might strip, if too-heavy a charge is being used. Or, as mentioned, your handloaded bullets might be a little too small in diameter...

12 February 2003, 07:39

<Fuzz>

Impossible for a bullet to tumble. Wobble yes.
Fuzz

12 February 2003, 08:04

John Y Cannuck

How is your bore?
The 38-55 originally had a different bore diameter than the 375 winchester that Hornady makes bullets for today. The bullet may be a bit of a loose fit in the bore.
The 303 case as mentioned above is a good example of this, but in this case, bore diameter variations in military 303s were wild, some shoot 308 bullets well, some are as big as .318.
I have a 303 that keyholes every shot, slug the bore, you may get a surprise.
Don't let it stop you, the 38-55 can shoot full power cast bullet loads, and you can get them in whatever size you need.

12 February 2003, 09:04

TC1

quote:
Originally posted by Fuzz:
Impossible for a bullet to tumble. Wobble yes.
Fuzz

Why would you say that FUZZ? I had a British Enfield surplus rifle that would blow primers and make absolutely perfect silhouettes of the bullets in card board. I was young, full of beginners luck and didn't realize how dangerous this rifle probably was. Looking back on it now I can only assume the bore was wasted and the headspace was out, But I honestly think those bullets were tumbling. Terry

12 February 2003, 16:21

<Win94>

Like i have said before, the Winchester factory load shoots perfect. But at 1300 fps, i might as well throw rocks. Why does the jacketed Winchester factory load shoot great but the Sierra and Hornady "keyhole". Where can i get these Winchester bullets without pulling them from the factory load?? Maybe i should pull the factory one and mike it and compare it to the hornady and sierra?? Thanks for all the input though fellas.

12 February 2003, 17:17

TC1

Mark, I think I may know where your problem lies. Look on the box of the Hornaday bullets, Is the actual diameter of the bullet .375 or .377? I'd bet you dollers to donuts they're .375. Some 38-55 rifle barrels will shoot them but most will not. Your going to have to find a brand that sells .377 bullets to get the bullet to stablize in your rifle (The .375 bullets are just bounceing down the barrel now). I know Barnes makes a bullet that will work but they're kinda pricey. Another option is to look at shooting cast bullets, That's what the round was designed to shoot anyway. They come in at .380, don't let that scare you though, they cast themselves to the right size as they go down the barrel. You won't have any pressure problems with them. I used to have a .38-55 years ago when I was big into blackpowder shooting. Terry

[ 02-12-2003, 09:03: Message edited by: TC1 ]

13 February 2003, 02:32

<Win94>

Thanks Terry. The box does say .375 How does one slug a barrel to find out??

13 February 2003, 02:45

TC1

Instead of slugging the barrel, I would just put a micrometer to one of the Winchester bullets. I'll bet it reads .377. Brownells sells a slugging kit though if you feel it's necessary. The way I've always done is to push a piece of soft lead down the barrel with a hardwood dowel rod and then measure it with a mic. To be precise though, you'll need to do it on both ends of the barrel (knock it in and knock it out the same end). If you don't you're only going to know what the smallest diameter of the barrel is. Terry

[ 02-12-2003, 18:59: Message edited by: TC1 ]

13 February 2003, 04:11

<Fuzz>

TC1
If a bullet were to tumble as it left the barrel you would have a group size 15-30 feet or more. Fuzz

13 February 2003, 04:34

TC1

quote:
Originally posted by Fuzz:
TC1
If a bullet were to tumble as it left the barrel you would have a group size 15-30 feet or more. Fuzz

What about smooth bores and shotgun slugs fired down unrifled barrels? I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but I just woudn't think it would be that bad. Take care. I'll be out of touch for the next few days. Terry

14 February 2003, 01:26

jethro

Fuzz, you are assuming the bullet is going completely unstable right out of the barrel. In that case, I would have to agree. However, the bullet may be partially stabilized for some distance then begin to tumble. I currently have this problem with a 17 Rem that I own, which has a burned out barrel. At 100yds, the round literally tumbles through the target. Bring it in to 50yds, and the holes are quite oblong.