Help with an old Rem 270

24 March 2023, 19:10

I have an old rem 270 and 7 mag that I built on old Chet Brown stocks back in the early 80's.

We all had good times and I have always used H4831 and Nosler bullets in the 150 grain. For both rifles all the 150s shot well in the same 3/4 group until Nosler came out with their BT's which had a different POI. The new Nos BT's shot well but for me over 200 they seemed to NOT come out the other side of the animal like the old lead tipped shots did over 200 yards. I hate walking down sendros looking for blood and not having hardly any and not able to mark exactly where the animal was standing and you know it was a good shoot.

Now with the last few years and people learning to shoot what they have or could find. I was lazy and buying Hornaday WT DH shells that shot well in all my guns. (Before)

Then I started reloading the Hornaday SP/BTSP and SST shells in 139 or 140 and they shot pretty well in the 3 different guns. Where with Nosler all the bullets shot accurately, now I find that the 7mag likes the SP 139 and the 7mm-08 likes the BTSP and the 270 shoots none of them. Interesting the rifles shoot one well under an inch and the other bullet is shit when all the Noslers were the same.

I have for the 270 a box of 140 BTSP and 130 SST's and can get no combination to shoot for shit with the H4831 from low to very hot loads
Just random on the paper. I did do the 150 partions mentioned and they were dead on.

I am trying to fig out the problems????? I finished up the old H4831 and have a couple pounds of SC that I have not opened. (yet)

Old powder? 270 Hates Hornaday Boat Tails? or shells in 140 range? Barrel going bad? The Midway BTSP's were from Midway in the second sale??? look good and weight correctly. SST 130 just a box.

I am looking for HELP! I am tired of going to the range and wasting time and money for naught.

Last Summer I did take my three favorite rifles apart after checking all screws inc scopes and deep cleaning the barrels I put the rifles back together and sealing the screws. Checks show everything seems to be correct.

Try a box of 270 SP150s? Need some help and ideas.

I appreciate the help. Sorry for the rambling.

Stay safe. Jim

Ideas for a better solutions to clean the barrels? Shells or ammo to try??

24 March 2023, 21:21

ZekeShikar

Just a thought Jim.....

If you took the rifles apart, make sure the magazine box is where it belongs on the action and inside the lip on the bottom metal.
Technically, it should not be tightly pinch between the action and bottom metal. I like mine to have a tiny bit of "slop" when the guard screws are tight so it can't bind the action.

That's a pesky problem that some overlook.

As for the load that YOUR rifle likes... well sir, that's like me telling you what your wife likes. haha

Just a thought,
Zeke

25 March 2023, 03:46

chuck375

Probably not the advice you're looking for, but I would go back to 150g Partitions and H4831. It's a combination I've used for 50 years with our two BDLs in 270. They shoot 1/2 groups and I get just over 3000 fps from their 22" barrels.

25 March 2023, 04:58

Wstrnhuntr

So you have an old 270 that used to shoot well, all screws seem to check out and now it doesnt shoot well. Sound about right?

I dont own a borescope, but I would like to. I think they could be especially useful for conundrums like this. I picked up a little trick on the webb, take a copper Sos pad and pull a couple strands off of it then wrap them around a bore mop and run it through your problem bore. It works surprisingly well for knocking out stubborn fouling.
Do you use a chronograph? Mine showed me that an old 06 I picked up had an extremely tired barrel. Is the rifle worth a rebarrel job to you? If so it may be time to consider it.
Either you missed something important in your rifle point checks, or something else is wrong. It might be a good idea to try a different scope as well.

Also how does the crown look? There is a simple trick for bad crowns that involves a round headed brass screw and a drill.

25 March 2023, 05:52

Lamar

I've had to switch to RL-19 in place of 4831 with a few different bullets before.
same speed as brand A just with a slightly different push to get there.

my 25-06 is one of those.
speers and 4831, Hornady's and RL-19,, same 3-K speed, same accuracy.

25 March 2023, 19:56

44magLeo

Most all guns prefer certain bullets at certain velocities. A few shoot everything well.
On the 284 calibers have you tried any monometal bullets? In my Rem 725 in 280 Rem Hornady's 139 gr GMX shoot me well and being monometal bullets they expand well without over expanding and penetrate well. Seldom staying inside a deer.
On the 270 the barrel could be getting worn. As your throats wear the bullet jump from case to lands increases. This may require seating bullets out a bit farther to compensate. One way to check how far the lands are away from the case mouth is to take one case and size it only enough to size about 1/16 to 1/8 inch of the neck. This won't size the case body. Now seat a bullet so it just starts in the case. Carefully chamber this case. As you chamber this case the bullet will touch the lands before it fully chambers. Once you feel the bullet touch, go slowly till the bolt closes. Carefully extract the case, holding the case into the action so the bullet won't scrape coming out of the chamber.
Now you measure this dummy rounds for coal. Use your favorite powder and load 5 rounds with a slightly reduced charge, 1 or 1.5 grs light at this length.
Load 5 more .010 shorter with the same charge. Continue loading like this each 5 loads in increments of .010 till you reach or old coal for that bullet. Or if a new bullet till you reach about.070 or so shorter.
With shooting each each load in groups you should be able to see trends toward the best length. Once you find this best length and it functions in the mag and feeds well you can then do the same with powder charges. Back off the load 5% or so and work up in .5 gr increments to find a good charge.
You may find that you have two loads by length next to each other that have a similar group size. You can split the difference in length just to see if it helps. Same with powder.
Good luck with your load development.

25 March 2023, 20:02

44magLeo

Teslong makes good bore Scopes that hook up to your phone for around $50 last I checked. They have several options on the scope, flexible or rigid, pistol and rifle length, some self contained so you don't need to hook to your phone.

26 March 2023, 01:29

chuck375

I've had scopes go bad too or loose scope mounts. First put another scope on, if that doesn't work replace the mounts too.

26 March 2023, 06:20

Bobster

I have four rifles I built back in the mid 1990's. They all shot 3/4 in groups. When I shot them again 5 years ago with the same ammo, the groups soared to 1.5 in plus. Guess what, it was me!

quote:
Originally posted by JimTx:
I have an old rem 270 and 7 mag that I built on old Chet Brown stocks back in the early 80's.

We all had good times and I have always used H4831 and Nosler bullets in the 150 grain. For both rifles all the 150s shot well in the same 3/4 group until Nosler came out with their BT's which had a different POI. The new Nos BT's shot well but for me over 200 they seemed to NOT come out the other side of the animal like the old lead tipped shots did over 200 yards. I hate walking down sendros looking for blood and not having hardly any and not able to mark exactly where the animal was standing and you know it was a good shoot.

Now with the last few years and people learning to shoot what they have or could find. I was lazy and buying Hornaday WT DH shells that shot well in all my guns. (Before)

Then I started reloading the Hornaday SP/BTSP and SST shells in 139 or 140 and they shot pretty well in the 3 different guns. Where with Nosler all the bullets shot accurately, now I find that the 7mag likes the SP 139 and the 7mm-08 likes the BTSP and the 270 shoots none of them. Interesting the rifles shoot one well under an inch and the other bullet is shit when all the Noslers were the same.

I have for the 270 a box of 140 BTSP and 130 SST's and can get no combination to shoot for shit with the H4831 from low to very hot loads
Just random on the paper. I did do the 150 partions mentioned and they were dead on.

I am trying to fig out the problems????? I finished up the old H4831 and have a couple pounds of SC that I have not opened. (yet)

Old powder? 270 Hates Hornaday Boat Tails? or shells in 140 range? Barrel going bad? The Midway BTSP's were from Midway in the second sale??? look good and weight correctly. SST 130 just a box.

I am looking for HELP! I am tired of going to the range and wasting time and money for naught.

Last Summer I did take my three favorite rifles apart after checking all screws inc scopes and deep cleaning the barrels I put the rifles back together and sealing the screws. Checks show everything seems to be correct.

Try a box of 270 SP150s? Need some help and ideas.

I appreciate the help. Sorry for the rambling.
Stay safe. Jim

Ideas for a better solutions to clean the barrels? Shells or ammo to try??

28 March 2023, 01:42

JimTx

I would have thought it was the rifle but the 150 Nos 150 gr Partions were touching but the Hornaday bullets sucked 140BTSP worst but the 130 SST only gave a 2.5 or so group.

I know that the 7mm Sp and the BTSP do not shoot any where close in the 7 mag. SP is 3/4 and SPBT sucks. On 7mm-08 the SPBT shoots great and the SP fair.

I doubt there is anything wrong with Hornaday seconds sold by MW?? and the the 130 SST are a regular box.

28 March 2023, 21:34

Atkinson

Shoot your 150s, and you said they work great, Ive shot deer and elk with that combo, and if it ain't broke, don't go fixin it!

Only you can fix the problem, its your investigation, the rest is guess and by gosh, and seldom works, and creates MORE trips to the range..to work out such problems one must have gun in hand and a 50 or 100 yd range!

Ive never seen a 270 that wouldn't shoot with a 130 gr. bullet and a big dose of H4831, but Im sure one pops up now and then, its just the nature of the beast.

29 March 2023, 08:18

JimTx

Still looking in what to do with the rifle. I would fig worn out barrel but the Nosler Part are touching dead on about 2.5 high.
I was finishing up the last of the H4831 that I had before opening up a bottle of H4831 SC.

I wonder if the old powder might have caused a problem at the end of an old container?

I was going to look at the old seating depth for the Nosler rounds to see if I might need to seat the bullet out closer to the lands?

Any other suggestions? I was going to find a box of 150 gr SP from Hornaday to see if they shot better.

Any other ideas?

The Hornaday's were Seconds but doubt that would be the problem?

Any thing else to try? I am cleaning the rifles up tomorrow since I brought them home.

23 May 2023, 22:06

Atkinson

The 150 Nosler partitions have worked great for me with old WW2 4831 powder, even back a 100 years or less and the Nosler is designed to open up quickly and penetrate like the dickens so its worked on small deer and large animals for me!! Also the 130 gr. Sierra has always been super accurate in my 270s,and work fine on deer. Guns are an inity unto themselves and only you can fix it or dump it..I hate a temperamental gun!

26 May 2023, 08:27

sambarman338

The 270W was one of the hotter old-timey cartridges and if you've put two or three packets of ammo through it annually over 40 years, the barrel might be getting tired, esp. if you fired many shots in rapid succession.

Throats are the first part to wear and apparently get longer over time. Maybe, if you recheck the clearance between bullets and rifling, you can seat projectiles out farther for better accuracy.

27 May 2023, 00:26

dpcd

Didn't read any of the above, but I can tell you what I do with 270s; remove the barrels and build something else. I have a ton of 270 barrels, which I will sell for $100. I can proudly say, I have owned at least 20 270s and never fired one. And don't want to.

28 May 2023, 19:19

chuck375

I'm on my 3rd barrel in my BDL in 270 I bougt in the late 60s. Got 2000 plus rounds out of each barrel and they were still shooting great when I replaced them (just wanted one of those fancy Shilen stainless barrels lol). In my opinion the 270 hits as hard as a 30-06, shoots flatter and kicks less.

06 June 2023, 04:41

Atkinson

Put a reasonable price on it and sell it and buy another rifle..I will try and buy yours if you decide to do that..address below.

06 June 2023, 20:51

D Humbarger

Try looking down a bore scope and checkout the bore especially the throats. Sounds like you have an excuse to rebarrel!

06 June 2023, 21:35

Slider

Thank me later. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014881554/

06 June 2023, 23:30

307RIFLE

I had a pre-64 Model 70 30-06 that would NOT shoot boat tail bullets. But it would shoot flat base bullets (like Nosler Partitions) very well. Some rifles are picky and you have to give them what they like.

08 June 2023, 01:58

Atkinson

I have a Ruger 1-A fwt in .270 I got in trade, shot it before selling, it shoots anything under and inch and all I shot went to the same POI..It found a home and that's rare around my hogan..So far its been around over 4 or5 year best I recall.

09 June 2023, 04:56

Michael Robinson

Bench rest and target shooters generally have found that gilt-edged accuracy starts falling off the cliff in barrels chambered for high velocity cartridges after about 3,000 rounds fired.

The bad news starts with throat erosion.

A bore scope will show you what you have.

Unfortunately, nothing good lasts forever.

10 June 2023, 00:15

South Pender

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Bench rest and target shooters generally have found that gilt-edged accuracy starts falling off the cliff in barrels chambered for high velocity cartridges after about 3,000 rounds fired.

The bad news starts with throat erosion.

A bore scope will show you what you have.

Unfortunately, nothing good lasts forever.

Mike, it's a lot less than 3,000 rounds, I believe, for many high-velocity cartridges. A calculator I've found useful is this Excel spreadsheet from Accurate Shooter. It gives an estimate of accurate barrel life as a function of bore diameter, powder charge, powder heat (which it provides for many powders), pressure, and whether or not the bullets are moly-coated. It assumes, I believe, a time between shots of 66 seconds (so not rapid fire).

https://www.accurateshooter.co...-useful-barrel-life/

I ran the numbers for the .270 Win. for a high-velocity 130-gr. load using 59 gr. of H4831 and an assumed pressure of 58,000 psi and the result was an estimated accurate barrel life of only about 1300 rounds. Once we look at the really high-velocity rounds like the .257 Wby, for example, it gets much worse (less than 700 rounds for a typical .257 Wby. load).

03 January 2024, 08:44

Walter Prociuk

Every 270 I load with H-4831 is sparked with a large rifle MAGNUM primer. I find they make this modern H-4831 work better.

09 January 2024, 06:44

JimTx

I got smart and just gave the Hornaday 140 BTSP and the Hornaday SST so I would quit screwing with it.

The Hornaday 150 SP and the Speer 150 SP both shoot very very well. I just got spoiled that all the old Nosler 150's SP and Partions went into the same group usually touching until Nosler went to the Ballistic tip. Did not fit into the same group and the old ones seem to Not do the job that the old lead tipped bullets did. Never got a good blood trail shooting lung shots 225 to 300 yards.

Thanks for the advise. Jim