quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
A certain individual posted the statement below recently.Do you think that the statement has merit,or is it B.S.?

quote:

Any new hunting rifle shot by a beginner will shoot half inch groups at 100yds.

Only if "SHOOTAWAY" is the beginner behind the rifle.

If this was true the custombuilders would be out of business.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If he is lucky to shoot the right factory load,it WILL until it gets copper fouled (3shots).

If three shots worth of fouling does it, the barrel is a tomato stake with no useful sporting purpose. You'd know that if you had ever been a shooter. Since you're not, no statement from you is surprising.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunppowder."

I think the issue is that of consistency...
Many hunters may shoot 3 shot groups some days that go under 1" @ 100, BUT that doesn't make their rifle a guaranteed sub MOA shooter...although its nice to think it is!!!

I would like to see someone measure groups from many different rifles, shot by experienced shooters over a few days at a range and then begin to average out the groups, per rifle, taking into account calibre, barrel, bedding, shot frequency etc.

As we all know, components, COL etc all make a difference. Just last week I was amazed at the difference that different primers made on a friends HS Precision .308 target rifle. That is a pretty much a guaranteed sub MOA shooter BUT is also made for target competiton, has a very heavy 26" fluted barrel and all the right tweaks...of course the 22x Nighforce helps on your end too! It prints little ragged holes...with the right ammo...a change in primers 'opended' the groups up to about 1" @ 100. Of course like any rifle it too is susceptible to barrel temp and fouling (or lack thereof). Of course being a comp rifle these small differences would me sqwat to most hunters but those few mm mean winning a match or not.

What the ??. What happen to my original reply it seems to have just disappeared . Gremlins run a muck .


quote:
Any new hunting rifle shot by a beginner will shoot half inch groups at 100yds.

Yea and I can shoot the eye out of a crow at 600 yd. flying with a .223 in a 60 MPH cross wind free handed !.

By the way all of you lefties whose weapons wouldn't do .5 " at a 100 Yd. I'll be happy to consider their removal for you . Give me a break P T Barnum was right . ...

My 270WthbyMag used to put the first smack on the mark,with the second taking a light love bite out of the first hole. Third often used to bring it out to about 3/4 -1" inch. thats good enough, by that time(3shots)the creature is free to go....cause im on the ground laughing at myself....

I purchased my first centerfire rifle in 1952. Over the years I have owned Winchester, Remington, Ruger, Browning, Sako, Cooper, Kimber,and Anchutz rifles. There were a few new ones out of the box that would shoot under one inch groups at 100 Yds off a bench rest. But after giving them a tune up that could include adjusting the trigger to about three pounds, glass bedding the action, free floating the barrel, lapping the bolt locking lugs, and lapping the barrel muzzle most all shot under one inch groups at 100 Yds with some shooting under 1/2 inch groups with hand loads. Now when hunting I no longer can hold a rifle like I use to but if I miss I know that it was me not the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
A certain individual posted the statement below recently.Do you think that the statement has merit,or is it B.S.?

quote:

Any new hunting rifle shot by a beginner will shoot half inch groups at 100yds.

I think it could happen. Will it happen everytime, no. I have several rifles that have not had anything done to them, that I can tell, that will shoot well under MOA at 100yards when I find the right combination of load & bullet for them. I also have a rifle that was built by a gunsmith that has not shot minute of mule deer yet. My point being, just because it is mass produced doesn't mean it won't shoot & even though it was built by hand doesn't mean it will shoot either.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
My 270WthbyMag used to put the first smack on the mark,with the second taking a light love bite out of the first hole. Third often used to bring it out to about 3/4 -1" inch. thats good enough, by that time(3shots)the creature is free to go....cause im on the ground laughing at myself....

That's a pretty good way of looking at it from a hunting rifle perspective...

I 'expect' one hole groups, but reality is I 'accept' sub moa for a game rifle. Consistent first shot/cold barrel is 99%, subsequent shots often non-issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
I always handload and experiment with components and velocity until I can achieve the smallest possible group.

I think anyone can shoot a 3 shot group and get a tiny 3 hole cluster, I've done it a hundred times, but I only accept 5 shot groups. I keep working on my loads until they prove they can consistently shoot.

My Hunting rifles true 5-shot group sizes:
M-700 .30-06: 5 shot 1" group, 165gr Hornady BTSP @ 2850 fps MV
M-700 .270 Sendero Sub 1" group, 140gr Nosler Accubond @ 3025 fps MV
M-700 .338WM 1.5" group, 250gr Nosler Partition @ 2645 fps MV
M-700 8x57 1.25" group, 220gr Sierra GameKing @ 2275 fps MV (I think I can improve this)
M-700 .300H&H 1" group, 200gr Nosler Accubond @ 2725 fps MV
CZ-550 .458 Lott 5" group (iron sights), 500gr Hornady IB @ 2250 fps MV
ZKK-602 .416RM 3.5" group, 400gr Hornady IL @ 2350 fps MV
Marlin M-1895GS 4.5" group, 350gr Horandy FN IL @ 2025 fps MV

5 shot groups for a biggame rifle is worthless! You ever shoot 5 shots at a deer? For a biggame rifle, I take a cold clean barrel, load 3 shots in the mag, and quickly fire as fast as I can align the scope on the target, the gun must hit point of aim, and group less than 1" at 100yds, then I'm satisfied.

In 2004, I put 4 225gr Nosler Parts, out of my .338WM right through a bull moose, at 40 yards. The shots were all dead center, complete pass-throughs, but the moose didn't seem to know it was dead on it's feet. Since my rifle was empty, my buddy put a 5th round into the bull and it finally dropped. The rack I am holding in the top left photo, is from that bull btw...

I shoot until the animal is down.

Frankly if the first shot is dead center that is good enough right?

But anybody, when they are testing a load or sighting in a rifle shoots multiple shots. Some people believe in 3 shots, some people 4 or 5, and there are people out there that don't think a 5 shot group is enough, so what?