Interesting comparison of the major 8mm cartridges of the late 19th century. All of them could be loaded to modern performance levels and brass is either available or easily formable.

European 8mm's

Mac,

That's ancient history..........

The only decent European 8mm is the 8x68S

If you want ancient and interesting, try the 8x60 and 8x60S. The S version is a real thumper! Not so the 8x60 (0.318) which seems to be stuck with lower velocity for reasons unknown to me. I would never feel undergunned with an 8x60S!

LLS

I dunno Blair, I've got a 8X64S I'm very happy with. I was dissapointed it wasn't listed on the chart Macifej linked.

Terry

Interesting. Thanks for posting this.

I currently have and shoot the 8x54K, 8x56R, 8x57IS, 8x60S, and 8x68S.

The 8x64 is a good one too!

Ok boyz.......the theme is late 19th century. The 8x64 and 8x68 are 20th century inventions and quite modern. Y'all boyz didn't notice that all on the list are rimmed cartridges which was the fashion in that era.

Anyone know of a rimmed 8 mm that's not on the list??

The two Siamese rounds.

Mac...there are some Remington 1867/89 Swedish military rolling block rifles being imported/sold up here in 8X58R....
I saw some at a gun show last weekend and they are kinda neat little rifles compared to most RB I have seen with their heavy Oct. barrels..
I don't know if the 8X58R is a euro cart. or not but there you go..

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Ok boyz.......the theme is late 19th century. The 8x64 and 8x68 are 20th century inventions and quite modern.

My bad

Terry

Macifejh, there are the 8x75RS, the most powerful rimned 8mm and the 8x65RS, the 8x60RS...

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
I dunno Blair, I've got a 8X64S I'm very happy with. I was dissapointed it wasn't listed on the chart Macifej linked.

Terry

Fair enough.

Who knows the history of the 8 x 75 RS??

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Who knows the history of the 8 x 75 RS??

It came out around 1910, both rimmed and rimless. They are based on the 9,3x74R and were intended for African use. They were made both with the .318 and .323 bore, so be aware.
The rimmed version is still being loaded in Germany, and guns are chambered for it.
It gives 3050 fps with a 198 grs bullet, quite impressing numbers in a breachloader.

It was the main inspiration for my FGC cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
It gives 3050 fps with a 198 grs bullet

Bent, isn't that a somewhat optimistic expectation?? I would consider 2700-2850 fps a lot more realistic.

- mike

8mm/360R Brittish

/Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Ok boyz.......the theme is late 19th century. The 8x64 and 8x68 are 20th century inventions and quite modern. Y'all boyz didn't notice that all on the list are rimmed cartridges which was the fashion in that era.

Anyone know of a rimmed 8 mm that's not on the list??

Messy - there are 3 different 8x75R cartridges:

8x75R Behr dated 1909:



8x75RS Behr dated 1908:



and modern 8x75R dated 1992:

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
It gives 3050 fps with a 198 grs bullet

Bent, isn't that a somewhat optimistic expectation?? I would consider 2700-2850 fps a lot more realistic.

- mike

Yeah Mike, but it is factory loadings.
I have never cronoed them.

Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
It gives 3050 fps with a 198 grs bullet

Bent, isn't that a somewhat optimistic expectation?? I would consider 2700-2850 fps a lot more realistic.

- mike

Yes, I think, that is more realistic, with special powder like Norma MRP you can safely get 870m/sec., but that is a lot of power!
The 8x75RS is a very good peromer, but in a light rifle (for example the Blaser K77) it kicks like a mule!

For some strange reason in India they adopted a 8mm rimmed round in an enfield action rifle, which is v. popular as the ammo is freely available. Not sure which 8mm caliber it is, but it shoots a 244 grain long round nose bullet and is very effective under 100 yards. I have shot a lot of game with it and the performance was good. Crap action and rifle, but it did the job.

I have an 8x50R Lebel and I love it.

I'm still struggling to understand the relative lack of interest in the 8mms in the U.S. I know the usual explanation is that U.S. ammo makers underload the 8X57 because of the .318/.323 bore issue. But properly loaded in a 98 action, it's a hell of a versatile round, not to mention all the other 8s there are to play with ...
Thanks for the thread, Macifej

P.S. Hey Ray, show us a "pitcher" of your froggie ...

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I'm still struggling to understand the relative lack of interest in the 8mms in the U.S. I know the usual explanation is that U.S. ammo makers underload the 8X57 because of the .318/.323 bore issue. But properly loaded in a 98 action, it's a hell of a versatile round, not to mention all the other 8s there are to play with ...
Thanks for the thread, Macifej

P.S. Hey Ray, show us a "pitcher" of your froggie ...

The underloaded US ammo has never helped the situation. And the fact that the .30-06 and 8x57 are darn near twins doesn't help. I love my 8mm's but in reality, they are a handload proposition here and .30-06 ammo can be found in just about any store that stocks ammo.

My newest favorite is the 8x60S.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:


My newest favorite is the 8x60S.

That is a very fine cartridge! Something (nearly identical) like poor man`s .318 Nitro Express!

quote:

Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:


My newest favorite is the 8x60S.

That is a very fine cartridge! Something (nearly identical) like poor man`s .318 Nitro Express!

I agree. Hard to say which I like more, the .338-06 or the 8x60S. Both of which could be poor man's .318 Nitro's. Luckily I don't have to choose.

My 8x60 only has open sights while my .338-06 is scoped. At 6.75 lbs the 8x60 is easy to carry all day.

All the oddball bore sizes add to the mystique!! The 8x56R is a .329" or .330" bore. There are a couple of factory bullets out there but I'm thinking of doing a ahort run of 170 grain spitzer solids in .330".

I really wasn't aware of the 8 x 75R until you guys posted it here. This would be a great round for falling block big barrel bangers.

Those are all MILITARY 8mm's. Except for the 8X57JS, none are in the same class as any of the better European SPORTING 8mm's, such as the 8X64S, or the 8X68S..........

They are all rimmed........

"P.S. Hey Ray, show us a "pitcher" of your froggie ..."

As soon as I can, I will, along with the Custom Stock in progress. I have been delayed in finishing this project because my wife wanted me to build her a "CUSTOM" desk. Post pics soon of my "Frenchie".

Here are the pics.
[IMG:left] [/IMG]
[IMG:left] [/IMG]

Ray: Thanks for the photos. Very interesting stock. I look forward to seeing the completed project.

The 8x75RS was developed 1908 by the german firm DWM on reguest from Behrs Waffen Werke in Suhl. It existed 4 versions of the round. 8x75 I ,8x75 IR (.318) and 8x75 S ,8x75 RS (.323)
The R stands for the rimmed ,flanged version.

The round was purly a sivilian hunting round intended for domestic use and the german colonies in africa.

The rimless versions 8x75 I and 8x75 S did not survive due to the competition from the 8x64S and 8x68S

The 8x75RS was the favorite round for the Reichsjäger meister Herman Göring.

After the war the 8x75RS vansihed just to be revived by two germans Knipp and Böning in the middle of the 80 ies.

The 8x75 RS was then made by MEN (Metallwerk Elisenhütte Gmbh Nassau) until they ceased makeing civilian ammo in the mid 90 ties.


The 8x75 RS is now produced by WR muntion and Blaser. The Blaser round lists a 196 grains CDP bullet at 830 m/s.
It needs a 65 cm barrel to realize its full potential

I my Krieghoff double rifle drilling,short barrels only 55 cm ,it clocks 805 m/s. Sure much more then 8x57IRS. I would say the 8x75RS is comparable to the more modern round 30R blaser.

I have and enjoy both of them.

I have a 65cm barrel in my 8x75RS and I get save 800m/sec., but with a 220grs bullet, the .30R gets max. 800m with a 200grs bullet. You have ever clocked a .30R from a short 55cm barrel?

The 30 R Blaser I use in a Blaser K95. 60 cm barrel. It clocks 923 m/s with a Sierra 165 grains Spitzer and 64 grains Norma 204.

The Blaser CDP factory load 165 grains clocks at 880m/s.

8x75RS: the Blaser-CDP-load clocks at 830m/sec, my handload with 70grs Norma MRP and the Woodleigh Weldcore clocks at 880m/sec, with 67,5grs R905 and the 220grs Woodleigh at 804m/sec!

Yes with a 65 cm barrel the round really shows what it can give. I have tried MRP in my Krieghoff but the best groupings I get with N160.

Which rifle are are you using a kipblock büchse ?
How fast does the Blaser factory round clock in your 65 cm rifle

I use it in a K77 (Kippblockverschluss), but I never tested this expensive Blaser-ammo! It is a nice, light rifle, but with the 8x75RS, it kicks like a mule!

he he so does the 30R. I had mine magna ported and put in a kick stop then it behaved better.

But I think it is important to note that the loadings we use in our blaser kippblockverschluss rifles should not be used in simple breach rifles
like krieghoff hubertus .

By the way my dream kippblockverschluss would be a Scheiring

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Interesting comparison of the major 8mm cartridges of the late 19th century. All of them could be loaded to modern performance levels and brass is either available or easily formable.

European 8mm's

Oh my - what RUBBISH.

I wonder about the gall of the chap publishing this shtuff who did not even bother to get the bullet weights right. Sheesh.

Carcano

What's rubbish Carcano...?

The data is loaded into Ammoguide by "contributors" not the publisher.