Re: Belted Magnums....

13 November 2004, 05:16

<allen day>

I agree that feeding problems with belted cases are almost always related to mechanical problems with the rifle and NOT the belted case. Of course the gun industry and its collection of stooge gunwriters have portrayed the situation in reverse, and mostly to fool the peasants into buying new rifles and cartridges to escape all of the sundry "problems" related to belted cases.

A case in point: Alf has explained some of the feeding problems he's had with his .416 Remington. I certainly believe his testimony entirely, but his experiences showcase the mechanical nature of such problems, rather than serve as an indictment of the belted case.

Conversely, my Echols-built M70 in .416 Remington feeds even empty cases flawlessly, and loaded rounds like you're working an empty action. That rifle works so well because of Echols' magazine system and his uncanny ability to modify and adjust the whole assembly to perfect working order.

Even those wonderful old pre-64 Model 70s and Belgian Browning High-Powers in belted-magnum chamberings feed perfectly as a rule, especially the pre-64s in .300 H&H and .375 H&H. So the factories can make it work if they WANT to, but customers have to demonstrate that they're willing to pay for quality, which for the most part they haven't and likely won't.

We don't need to eliminate belts, and we don't need new factory cartridges -- we need better factory rifles...............

AD

10 November 2004, 03:34

Brad

Quote:

I have a M70 (new pre-64 CRF) in 338 Win Mag that gave me feeding problems. Working the bolt vigorously, I got jams. After a round had jammed, I could look and see where the neck had been deformed/ dented by catching on something.

I started with the hypothesis that the neck was catching on the recess for the belt, due to a weak follower spring. Replacing the follower spring did indeed solve the problem, and I haven't had any jams since. Not sure if my hypothesis was correct, but it led me in the right direction.

Washougal Chris

What you've described is one of the most common problems with factory mfg'd belted mags (at least crf M70's). Every M70 I've ever had chambered for a belted mag exhibited this defect. When chambering a round sloooowly (like you would creeping through the timber, trying to silently chamber a round) the case mouth will (60%+ of the time) hang up on the belt cut out. Every custom smith worth his salt knows about this phenomenon and will chamfer the belt/chamber entrance. The factory chambers are too "sharp" at the entrance which is where the problem comes from. I've tried to overcome this by using a Lee Factory Crimp so the case mouth is less obtrusive but it doesn't seem to fix the problem very well and cases will still hang up. I've even tried to emery the belt cutout from the reciever. The best thing is to have the barrel pulled and a smith clean it up or, better yet, have it rebarreled. I really doubt most folks ever experience as they probably don't feed rounds slowly while trying to be quiet. Personally, after having five M70's that did this I won't buy one except as an action for a custom rifle with properly machined chmaber.

10 November 2004, 02:40

TC1

Quote:

Its good that weve come full circle, now the belted mags are old stuff and beltless mags are all the rage. Aint it cool when trendyness catches up with sensibility for a while?

I couldn't disagree more

The three WSM's I've shot didn't feed nearly as smooth as the older magnums I've owned. The one RUM that I own feeds smooth, but damn, talk about overkill

It's a fun rifle but not for a one gun owner.

I won't poop on the new stuff too much, but I'd take any of the older magnums over any of the newer magnums any day.

Terry

10 November 2004, 02:44

JBabcock

I presently own 2 of the newer Model 70 Classics. Both are chambered in 338 Win Mag. One is a Stainless version, the other is a Blued steel version that will have the "Boss" removed and the barrel either recrowned, or a sleeve installed over new threads. Both feed, and chamber superbly. The Stainless rifle is the rifle I use in Alaska for Bear hunting, and I've tried to jam it with no luck. The blued steel version feeds even better in my mind, so much better that I'm going to replace the synthetic follower in the Stainless rifle, with the steel one that the blued gun has. I see that they are available on Winchesters web sight.

I have no complaints with belted magnums, and the 338 Win Mag loaded with 210gr Noslers has quickly become my favorite game cartridge. Nothing but 1 shot kills.