The Accurate Reloading Forums
Re: Belted Magnums....

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13 November 2004, 10:05
Wstrnhuntr
Re: Belted Magnums....
Quote:

I agree that feeding problems with belted cases are almost always related to mechanical problems with the rifle and NOT the belted case.




Exactly. I have a Model 99 Savage that occasionaly was subject to the same hang up that Brad describes, only it was on the sharp face of the bbl end on a beltless 300 savage. My soloution was to simply chamfer the case necks, although fixing the flaw would have been better.

Still Brad makes a valid point, removing a sharp edge on the outside of a chamber is one thing, but doing it on the inside is in effect altering the dimensions.

I would definatley consider a 300 WM with no belt to be an improvment over one with it and have no problem with moving forward as such.

There are some things that give me a distaste for change as well, but the removal of a meaningless belt is not one of them. I think the new (beltless) designs are a step in the right direction.
11 November 2004, 19:07
JBabcock
Brad,

I've tried to do what you described with my Stainless Classic 338, "feed it real sloooowly", and all that happens is the rounds just slip under the extracter, and then they slide into the chamber.

It isn't hanging up anywhere. Odd.
11 November 2004, 15:41
sdgunslinger
The neck/belt-cut out hang up may be common on recent M-70 s , Brad , but Iv'e never seen it on push feed M-70 s , Rugers , Remingtons , FN s , Parker-Hales , or a Whitwoth I aquired this year.



So I don't think it's fair to say that is a belted case design problem , but rather it seems to me to be a recent CRF M-70 quality control problem .
11 November 2004, 13:35
Brad
Quote:

And I would take a beltless version of ANY cartridge over a belted one any day, the only exception being the original H&H's.



Wstrn, with the crappy feeding of the last FIVE factory M70/Magnum's I've had I'll never own another save an H&H or a custom built belted mag... funny how little attention the phenomenon I posted above gets... it's a well know fact among custom maker's and I've had more than one lengthy discussion with a former Winchester engineer regarding the phenomenon... go figure.
09 November 2004, 23:57
Wstrnhuntr
My experiences with belted cartridges just left me feeling that it is a PITA loading them because you need to be carefull to stack belt on belt. For that one simple reason I prefer beltless, but its not a real big obstacle to overcome.

Never had any feeding problems with mine that I can recall though.

Its good that weve come full circle, now the belted mags are old stuff and beltless mags are all the rage. Aint it cool when trendyness catches up with sensibility for a while?
12 November 2004, 01:29
mho
The belt is indeed a PIA on most cases that don't strictly need it (e.g. .458 Win Mag or the original .H&H cases), put there largely for "marketing purposes. But IMHO, the feeding is not the problem. Rather the issues are how belted cases are manufactured (poor tolerances), how chambers are cut for belted cases (mostly way oversize), how dies for belted cases are made, and the fact that belts take up unnecessary space in the magazine. So here is to beltless magnums, I just wish there were more "standard" magnums without the belt! As somebody mentioned above, the good old 8x68S (and other early German designs like the 9.3x64) are great examples of how to design large capacity cases without resorting to the pesky belts.
- mike