First off some info

Remington 700 30-06

Floated and glassed

Leupold VX3 3.5x10x40 setting in dual dovetail 2 piece bases.....lapped rings

180grn Bal Tips and Accubonds over 55 grns I4350 a proven load in this rifle

My -06 has never been finicky but in the past couple weeks it has started to bruise my confidence

200 yard 5" 5 shot groups last week and today of horizontal yuck.

What can turn a 1" gun into a 2 1/2" gun

Ted,

Please don't be offended but it sounds like the barrel could be badly fouled. Get it down to the metal and see what happens. This happened to me a couple of times. I was sure the barrel was clean but it wasn't.

Mark

how was the wind??

Mark,

I had that on my mind today along with base screws or just the scope is laying down on me.

I'm going to give the bore an overnight soak in wipeout and swap out one VX3 for another just the same and shoot again tomorrow.


Butch,

Wind was at my back at less than 10mph

make sure the action screws are tight.

If your barrel is floated,make sure it still is.Also bedding can be an issue to.

USP Bore Paste, check it out

I have never had to use it yet, but might start using on new guns before firing them.

Action screws were checked before the last two 200 yard session

The bedding and the float appear to be in the same condition as I left them when I put this barreled action into this stock two years ago.

The stock is a first generation Remington TI with aluminum pillars

then I would be concentrating my efforts on the scope and mounts.

Ted,
I had a similar problem a few years ago with a 338 WM and just a couple weeks ago with a 30-06. I scoured websites and found some references to trigger control. Specifically, horizontal stringing can be attributed to trigger control and vertical stringing can be attributed to significant powder charge variation. This of course assumes you have removed all the other possibilities as previously mentioned by other posters.

I mean no offense by mentioning this but as I have come to realize, some days I just don't shoot as well as I'd like despite my best efforts. When everything else with the ammunition, gun, optics and weather conditions have been ruled out there is only one variable left...the shooter. Whether this is the case with you or not I don't know but it is with me. Sucks to be human...

You should get improvement with cleaning and scope swap. I would do them one at a time so you find out where the problem actually is. If not check the bedding and action screw tightness. Also check the crown with a magnifying glass.

I soaked the barrel overnight and I've been cleaning on it all morning.

I can still see copper on the lands after an all night wipeout soak and several sessions with Tiptons Ultimate

So I would say before anything else.....my bore was loaded with copper

Blacktailer,

I like your one thing at a time approach. I will take my other scope and tools with me this evening and only change it out after I shoot and check.

if your local gun store has it, KG12 worked well for me.

this is what convinced me to try: http://www.laniganperformance....kg12testresults.html

when using wipe-out, make sure you alternate with a good solvent, as it will remove what wipe-out will not, and vice-versa. I use shooter's choice. tipton ultimate may work, I don't know what that is.

Tiptons Ultimate is an ammonia base aggressive cleaner that you have to stay with and not do a lengthy soak.

The bore seems to be free of copper but after a couple Sunday honey doo type things I will hit it again with JB then go shoot

This is 10 shots at 100

Still horizontal after all that work

Rework the bed job this week and shoot this coming weekend

switch out the scope first, way easier.

That last group is with a new VX3

This is a 10 shot group from the same rifle

Shot in late February

Ted,

Have you changed anything with the gun or ammo between the time it shot one inch groups and you first encountered the horizontal stringing?

Bedding? Loaded up some new rounds?

I hadn't changed anything on the rifle before yesterday's overhaul.

Just a note

Bench technique.......I let the rifle jump

Ted, you may think I am nuts, but I would try shooting at a small dot rather than the large black target you are shooting at. I know the target you use has the horizontal and vertical lines that help with scope alignment, but you are not talking about much movement at the rifle to cause the bit of horizontal stringing you are getting.

I typically shoot at a 1" hot orange dot on a white background @ 100, a 2" dot at 200, etc; I found out long ago that a smaller dot makes for more precise aiming; or at least it does for me... black is very hard for me to see.

The other thing I do is use just enough magnification to be able to see the dot outside the crosshair intersection point.

Ted,
Do the shots walk or are they random? Does it start with a decent group then widen as you shoot? Just wondering if the sequence of shots might yield more clues.

Wide left is shot #4

Wide right is shot #8

Stuff like this drives me crazy. Just a thought Ted, have you shot 3 or so off the bench again just to see if stringing is still present?

A good friend texted me a funny thought

He said if you break that up into 3 shot groups most people would be tickled

Ted, this is going to sound totally whacked, but take it completely out of the stock. Check that the pillars did not work loose. Check that the lug bedding didn't go somewhere like loose. Obviously something is moving. Put it back together and shoot it again. Strange as it seems, I had a 308 do this same thing and just by taking it out of the stock and putting it back in, it fixed the darned thing.

Ive had that sucker out looking at it every way I can think of but I bet I re-bed it this week

Your problem is one of two things IMO..1. if its stringing by the numbers meaning 12345 in a row in one direction then its due to side pressure on the barrel or in many cases its side pressure on the action usually caused by misalignment or in some cases bent screws..You really have to be careful about releiving pressure on barrel just because its touching the wood, you can take wood out but you cannot put it back and I have seen guys cut a lot of wood out on the barel channel and not get anything but a huge gap after releiving the tang and the whole things pops back in place..so always check the tang with inlettling black first..pressure on the right side of the tang pushes the barrel to the right and visa versa..

If it is spreading horizontally in no particular order then a front screw that is slightly loose will cause this----tighten the screw when a shot falls very close to center and since your gun shot fine a while back this could be the problem I'm thinking, but who knows, sometimes you have to tinker forever to find the problem..

You should number the location of each shot to determine the pattern because looking at your two groups I get the impression that you have a center cluster to a seperate group above it and that could be an indication of by the tang area bedding being too low, the first shot are good then it changes and moves the next shots higher. the oppossite can happen when the action is bowed by the front screw...

Not trying to confuse but this is how it works all things equal such as a good barrel etc.

Ted, I know you changed the scope and checked everything else. Did you check the bases and crown? I know it hurts to have one you have confidence in go nuts on ya. Been there too.

God Bless, Louis

I re-cut the crown Sunday

Removed each base screw one at a time and added blue loctite....they were already very tite

Tonight I opened up the clearance for the action screws and I'm re-beding tonight

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
That last group is with a new VX3

well then, I am all out of ideas.

How about cleaning and relubing the bolt and firing pin assembly? Maybe it is gunk-ed up and giving you varying lock times?

Please let us know how it works out. Any of us could have the same problem at some point in the future and could benefit from your experience.

sep, My brother lives in North Pole AK. Do you know Thomas E.. "Gene" Scarboro (retired major)?

Ed Scarboro

Some one asked about bench techniques and what type of rest I use

This pic was taken Sunday during the last group

Haven't shot since the re-bed.....bad wind and work has gotten in the way

Ed,
Sorry, I don't know your brother.

Ted,
If you want to confirm your bedding job, something I have been doing recently is removing the barreled action and coating the bedded parts of the rifle with Prussian blue. Then insert the barreled action back into the stock and tighten the action screws as usual. Loosen the screws, remove the barreled action and see if the Prussian blue shows the action is bearing evenly in the stock/bedding.

I bedded a Weatherby Vanguard 3 times and still couldn't get the receiver to bed evenly in the stock. The bottom right side of the received would not touch the bedding with the action screws tightened. I broke down and took it to my local gunsmith. He rebedded it and told me he thought the stock screw holes weren't lined up exactly causing the stock to torque. I checked his work with Prussian Blue and he got it to bed perfectly eliminating the problem I had.

I'm not implying you had or have a bedding problem, just that using the Prussian Blue made me at least feel confident the action was bearing properly in the stock and bedding...recoil lug too.

quote:

What are some causes for horizontal stringing

Mostly this is because the second, third, fourth and fifth shots land either left or right of the first one.....

My shooting wasn't stellar but the groups seem to have come back to what this old rifle used to do.

If it was me and that gun shot as it used to this morning, I would put it in a case and forget about tinkering with it until you get to the safari range.

After all, even the strung out groups were good enough.

By the way, I agree with the bad target theory posted above.