I am looking to build what I will call an open country or hill rifle. It needs to be chambered for an easily available cartridge. Its main use will be hill red deer in Scotland, possibly some mountain hunting, north American game up to elk, etc. It needs to be relatively handy but I am not after an ultralight rifle. <BR><BR>I am thinking along the lines of either a .300 Win Mag or a .30-06 improved (but chambered to handle factory .30-06) to shoot 180gr to 195gr bullets.<BR><BR>Any thoughts, comments or preferences?.300 Win Mag or .30-06 improved?.30-06 Improved.300 Win Mag

A 30-06 Imp gains you almost nothing over a 30-06. If you shoot std rounds in an imp chamber accuracy might be ok but you will lose some velocity.

My vote would be 30-06. If you feel you need a little more then go with the 300wmag the 30-06Imp won't bring anything to the table. Look in a Nosler manual or Nosler online you will see that often the std 06 had higher or at least equal to velocity of their Imp. I believe even PO himself felt the 30-06AI was a waste of time.

quote:

Originally posted by JabaliHunter:
I am looking to build what I will call an open country or hill rifle. It needs to be chambered for an easily available cartridge. Its main use will be hill red deer in Scotland, possibly some mountain hunting, north American game up to elk, etc. It needs to be relatively handy but I am not after an ultralight rifle.

I am thinking along the lines of either a .300 Win Mag or a .30-06 improved (but chambered to handle factory .30-06) to shoot 180gr to 195gr bullets.

Any thoughts, comments or preferences?

For your stated requirements, I'd be looking at a regular 30-06 with 22" barrel and 165 grain bullets. That will be more than adequate for your needs. No need for the heavy bullets you mentioned.

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I hear what you are saying.
Maybe I should add a little more background: I have a short-barrelled 6.5 that I use with 140gr and a heavier 9,3 that I use with 186gr so I am really looking for a longer range rig that falls in between without much crossover. I was thinking in terms of 24-26in barrel and the heavier bullets for maximum BC... maybe even Berger VLDs. The new rifle is to focus on areas where shots could be 250-350 yards if I can't get closer. I will handload, factory availability is only a consideration as a back-up plan when travelling.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
A 30-06 Imp gains you almost nothing over a 30-06.

While the 30-06 will be adequate, the 300WM will be better at the 250-350 yard ranges. Since you reload, you can always load down the WM if you choose.

I can see that maybe I should have asked about .30-06 or .300 Win Mag....

300 H&H is the original 30-06 Improved.

Though I think both the 30/06 & 300 Win. Mag. are great cartridges, if you want a very accurate long range hammer with reasonable recoil, go for the 300 Win. Mag. The 300 Weatherby is a bit better but ammunition is more expensive and not as widely available.

quote:

Originally posted by JabaliHunter:
Thanks for the quick responses guys. I hear what you are saying.
Maybe I should add a little more background: I have a short-barrelled 6.5 that I use with 140gr and a heavier 9,3 that I use with 186gr so I am really looking for a longer range rig that falls in between without much crossover. I was thinking in terms of 24-26in barrel and the heavier bullets for maximum BC... maybe even Berger VLDs. The new rifle is to focus on areas where shots could be 250-350 yards if I can't get closer. I will handload, factory availability is only a consideration as a back-up plan when travelling.

It would be helpful to know what your maximum range would be. As far as heavier bullets go, I maintain my earlier response with 165 grains for the .30-06. My son has taken two elk with his 7mm-08 with 140 grain Swift A-Frames. The key is use good bullets. So far what you've described requires neither a magnum, heavier bullets or longer barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:
So far what you've described requires neither a magnum, heavier bullets or longer barrel.

+1

I'd skip both of those cartridges and put together either a 280Rem or 7x64. I'll have to admit a bit of bias, I'm in the process of building a 7x64 for myself.

My rifle to fit that bill has been a .300 Win Mag for close to 20 years. Can't count the number of deer I have killed over 200 yards with it. Never got to hunt anything bigger but I am sure it would have been up to the task. I like 180 grain NBT's for deer.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
A 30-06 Imp gains you almost nothing over a 30-06. If you shoot std rounds in an imp chamber accuracy might be ok but you will lose some velocity.

My vote would be 30-06. If you feel you need a little more then go with the 300wmag the 30-06Imp won't bring anything to the table. Look in a Nosler manual or Nosler online you will see that often the std 06 had higher or at least equal to velocity of their Imp. I believe even PO himself felt the 30-06AI was a waste of time.

absotively! roger

For what you say you need the rifle for, a 30-06 is all you will need (not improved--as others have stated, going improved doesn't gain anything).

The 30-06 is a lot less expensive to shoot than the 300 Win Mag, and the lower recoil of the '06 makes it more fun to shoot.

Even if you reload--the brass for the 300 is more expensive and it generally takes about 30% more powder to load a cartridge for the 300 than for the '06.

Just my three cents worth.

Good luck.

Since you might be carrying it up and down mountains I'd suggest a 300 WM that weighs 7-8 lbs all up. I see that you don't need an ultralight but you can always add some weight if you like.

Last year I put together a 6 3/4 lb 300 WSM to replace my 8 lb 30-06. The woods are steep and thick around here with lots of downed trees to climb over and I really like carrying and shooting that light 300. For my hunting the 30-06 is plenty but I wanted a short action. I was a bit concerned about recoil but it's 1" thick Pachmeyer pad soaks up even full power elk loads. A brake isn't neccesary. I'll shoot 150s at 308 Win velocity for deer and practice, with that thick recoil pad I'll bet I can shoot it all day long in shirtsleeves.

300 wm

i had rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it

Though I have and use a bunch of different .300 Mags for various purposes, I concur with the folks who recommend the standard .30-06...enough so that I still have nine of them in various permutations.

Out to 350 yards, the regular '06 is quite adequate with up to (and including) 180 grain bullets. It is also very easy to find ammo & components for, though I personally prefer a 24" barrel for all-around use.

Whichever floats your boat will be fine...

Of the two listed, I would go with the 300 WM; however, I would have chosen the 30-06 or 300 H&H if they were an option.

If your going to be a bear......


.300 Ultra

For what you describe you don't need a .300, get an '06. Less recoil, plenty of power to 350 yards.

I voted for the 06 imp. As long as your building it on a 26" barrel it will show performance, not equal to but, closer to the standard magnums.

another vote for the old cartridge....aught six!

I voted for the 300 WM but now that I've read your follow-on posts, I'd probably opt for a 264 WM with a 26" barrel. You already shoot one 6.5, and the 264 can share the same bullet for reloading. Recoil is mild (less that the average '06) and the barrel can be a relatively light profile to keep the weight down and still shoot well.