Design a rifle to be a price point gun, and it will be a price point failure.

Never buy the cheapest model of anything .Building to price stinks !!

Most American gun manufactures top end offerings aren't much better...sad to say.. but in my experience true.

Every gun company produces shit products from time to time. Just how man made things work.

I've had FAR better luck with firearms I've owned in Sako, Sauer, Beretta, Benelli, Sig...than I've ever had with my American made firearms. Just my experience...ymmv

I had around 5 different Kimbers...all junk and I really wanted them to work out. Very nice looking rifles

Remington..better than most of the other American guns but nowhere near the Euro guns

Winchester..Junk
Ruger...terrible junk
Thompson Center...don't make me laugh
Savage..better and cheaper than the rest..go figure

I'm sure that just pissed off legions on here

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I've had FAR better luck with firearms I've owned in Sako, Sauer, Beretta, Benelli, Sig...than I've ever had with my American made firearms. Just my experience...ymmv

I had around 5 different Kimbers...all junk and I really wanted them to work out. Very nice looking rifles

Remington..better than most of the other American guns but nowhere near the Euro guns

Winchester..Junk
Ruger...terrible junk
Thompson Center...don't make me laugh
Savage..better and cheaper than the rest..go figure

I'm sure that just pissed off legions on here

Old Sakos yes. My Sauer rifles are treasures, some Blasers have been great. The benelli M2 I own is wonderful.

Well I have my opinions and we all know what they are like, everyone has one and how they all smell worse than mine, but here goes:

Winchester should have did something like Smith and Wesson, and added a suffix to the 70 for major design changes. Pre 64's were M70, post 64 pushfeeds 70-1, pushfeeds with anti-bind bolts 70-2, Classics 70-3, and the current MOA models being 70-4.

To be clear I am talking across the line changes to the model 70, i.e. the push feed design, the Classics, the MOA triggers. These are major changes, not cosmetic sub-models as in Fwts, Black Shadows, Safari Express etc.

As far as the MOA trigger, I am a dinosaur, I realize it. I hate change. It may be a great improvement, but why mess with Simple, Rugged, and Reliable??? That is my thoughts on the original model 70 trigger.

the sad thing about nearly all the new rifles made in the USofA, they cost nearly as much as my last several custom bolt guns built on the classic 98 Mauser action.

But...

I get to agonize for months over caliber, barrel length and contour, sights (love the NECG catalog) quality of wood (my primary enabler Chris at Walnutgrovegunstocks) and a fine metal man (Jim Kobe). It would take something pretty special from an American factory to tempt me these days, which is sad.