Predictable accuracy

29 October 2013, 01:05

I have sold rifles that shot better than 3.5" groups from the bench - but that was because that was as good as they were and I like shooting sub-MOA groups with my rifles.

If I couldn't shoot better than one inch groups from a bench I would either quit shooting or practice to get better or buy a gun that worked for me. It is a farce to call a target with bullets scattered all over it "a group".

Is there a way to "ignore" a topic?

29 October 2013, 01:34

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
The shooting ballerina is back!

I mean, you can't pay for this stuff!

I don't care what the other fellas think Shootaway, you go Man!

29 October 2013, 01:40

Alberta Canuck

I personally am friends with several "Distinguished" Hi-power shooters who use AR-15 platform rifles. I have seen two of them shoot numerous 10-shot "possibles" offhand at 100 yards on that reduced target.

I myself have shot an offhand "possible" on the 2" 10-ring at 200 yards. It was back in 1983 and I was using my heavily modified M-14, gunsmithed by Jimmy Clark who was a military marksmanship pro with one of the service competition units...whether AAMU or one of the others, I can't recall which for certain. (Could also have been he AFAMU, a couple of my shooting pals were from the Air Force AMU and a couple from the Army's.)

29 October 2013, 01:54

HPMaster

AC;

Yeah, Scary isn't it? I had the pleasure of scoring a top flite shooter and was very amazed at his calls. While I could not verify them to him, he saw them soon enough as the target was marked and raised. I mean, his calls were " X at 3", "X at 11" etc.

He fired a 198-14 X, off hand, in a decent breeze at foggy targets... he won the P100 that year if I recall.

I can call my off hand to clock and value, but Xs or 10s are beyond my ability to call with any degree of consistency. 9's and 8's, on the other hand, are right on call...

Follow through is as CHC called it, was staying on the gun until it dropped or it was obvious the bullet made it there by now. It is an integral part of any shooting disciplines shot plan (if you ain't making a shot plan, you ain't likely shooting very well).

I used to be heavy into flinters. Boy, talk about follow through. When I could cut a playing card at 10 yards, I figured I was following through quite well. Last time I took a flinter out, I scared myself at how hard it was to hold and hold and hold with all that fire next to my eyeball! thinking about hunting with Besty, I take it out and fire about 20 or so rounds until I can hold the ball into about a 2 inch dot at 25 yards, OH.

Best;

29 October 2013, 18:25

shootaway

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
The shooting ballerina is back!

I mean, you can't pay for this stuff!

I don't care what the other fellas think Shootaway, you go Man!

Thanks for the encouragement Scott! Power to us!

29 October 2013, 18:25

shootaway

quote:
Originally posted by Chiefen:
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
Here we see that after cleaning the rifle took three shots to settle before it was able to group at 100yds.

I keep looking but see no "group"?

Give me some time to check this out.

30 October 2013, 01:26

HPMaster

Shootaway;

Perhaps the reason your groups are quite wide and tall is that the barrel is shot out?

I would think that prone supported a heavy bbl'd target like gun should be printing 1 inch or less with decent ammunition. Mine do.

Perhaps your cleaning regimen is over doing it?

Most high volume High power shooters I shoot with clean twice each season, and a season often runs about 3000 rounds in practice and competition. Most button rifled barrels of any caliber last one, maybe two seasons, cut rifled chrome moly last two, maybe three seasons ( 5-8k rounds).

When I say we clean twice per annum, I mean a down to the metal job, other wise we just wipe off crud from the action surfaces, in and out, then run wet patches down the bore a few times, and dry.

I use a bronze brush every 500 rounds, 10 passes, from the breech through the muzzle, remove from the rod, withdraw the rod, the repeat 9x, followed by wet and dry patches.

Over cleaning can destroy accuracy in a hurry.

Some like the idea of bore pastes to remove copper fouling, others like chemicals, most just use oil and a brush occasionally.

Gosh, they shoot best duty for the most part, and if it don't, it won't last an 80 round match anyway....

Finally, never run a rod from muzzle to breech unless it is so designed as to prohibit breech to muzzle cleaning. Use a bore guide to protect the throat/leade from getting gouged by a steel rod, use a coated or carbon fiber rod if you wish, but always be gentle with the bore.

Ultimately, accuracy and precision is due more to the skill and aplomb of the shooter, rather than the rifle, all things being equal (of course, they are not!).

30 October 2013, 01:39

shootaway

quote:
Originally posted by HPMaster:
Shootaway;

Perhaps the reason your groups are quite wide and tall is that the barrel is shot out?

I would think that prone supported a heavy bbl'd target like gun should be printing 1 inch or less with decent ammunition. Mine do.

Perhaps your cleaning regimen is over doing it?

Most high volume High power shooters I shoot with clean twice each season, and a season often runs about 3000 rounds in practice and competition. Most button rifled barrels of any caliber last one, maybe two seasons, cut rifled chrome moly last two, maybe three seasons ( 5-8k rounds).

When I say we clean twice per annum, I mean a down to the metal job, other wise we just wipe off crud from the action surfaces, in and out, then run wet patches down the bore a few times, and dry.

I use a bronze brush every 500 rounds, 10 passes, from the breech through the muzzle, remove from the rod, withdraw the rod, the repeat 9x, followed by wet and dry patches.

Over cleaning can destroy accuracy in a hurry.

Some like the idea of bore pastes to remove copper fouling, others like chemicals, most just use oil and a brush occasionally.

Gosh, they shoot best duty for the most part, and if it don't, it won't last an 80 round match anyway....

Finally, never run a rod from muzzle to breech unless it is so designed as to prohibit breech to muzzle cleaning. Use a bore guide to protect the throat/leade from getting gouged by a steel rod, use a coated or carbon fiber rod if you wish, but always be gentle with the bore.

Ultimately, accuracy and precision is due more to the skill and aplomb of the shooter, rather than the rifle, all things being equal (of course, they are not!).

HP,post like this dont mean anything to me.I dont know who I am talking to and assume that I do not know anything about anything.If you want to connect or communicate with me shoot standing offhand with iron sights and post your target.This could be the biggest bullshit post I ever read.

30 October 2013, 06:06

PaulS

Ignorance can be treated with education...

There is no cure for "stoopid".

30 October 2013, 06:06

Crazyhorseconsulting

quote:
This could be the biggest bullshit post I ever read.

That says a lot from the person that started this POS and keeps reviving it!

30 October 2013, 06:37

SR4759

quote:
I dont know who I am talking to and assume that I do not know anything about anything.

Really?
Want to clear this up a little?

30 October 2013, 08:25

surestrike

You guys do know that Shitaway is nothing more than an evil, fucktard, of a troll right?

Put his stupid nasty ass on ignore. Don't feed the fucktard troll!

30 October 2013, 10:09

PaulH

I don't understand this thread.

30 October 2013, 18:19

surestrike

quote:
Originally posted by PaulH:
I don't understand this thread.

There is nothing to understand. The OP, Shootaway derives compulsive, sick, sexual joy from making stupid comments and then having logical intelligent people respond to them. It is the only way he can get attention because he's such a pathetic fuckhead in real life.

Otherwise known as a TROLL..

30 October 2013, 19:42

Pegleg

It must be that Canadian beer.

30 October 2013, 23:14

HPMaster

Shootaway;

I did, by no means, intend to offend you. On the other hand, the way you handle constructive criticism is rather difficult to understand.

It seems that your targets are telling a clear story, but not knowing you either, tends to lead me to start with some common causes to accuracy. If the rifle won't shot, no one will deliver tight groups, but you know that already.

As far as posting OH targets, I can I suppose, next time I practice I will take a photo and PM to you. I don't shoot sporting rifles much, other than at game and some practice prior to season..

I think my prone sling supported target a few post behind would tend to lend some credibility to my skills, maybe not.

Best;

31 October 2013, 00:12

shootaway

What you are saying could all be true-the same with any claim to accuracy especially on the internet.Anyone can post an accurate target.So far what you have said about shooting or shooting related comes to me as just stupid but I refrain from putting anything down unless I see proof that convinces me.If I see you shooting well either in real life or in a video then I will be a believer but until them what you say means nothing to me.For skill I look for people who shoot really well and who are not built strong-then I know that it is true skill.A big strong young fellow can hold a rifle steady and make it seem if he were shooting an air rifle.

31 October 2013, 00:43

HPMaster

Shootaway;

Well, don't hold back on your comments. I posted a target, same as you. Why is my target less credible than yours? Because it is a rather tight group?

Hmm. You have bonafides because you say you do, I describe my bonafides with a target that speaks of fair performance, and it's suspect?

As far as being a young well built specimen- that is not me-anymore. I am a combat disabled 52 year old deaf, arthritic 180 lb 5-10" grandfather who has two ready for the scrap yard knees..... Also, as most over 45, dealing with vision issues that particularly affect ability to see either target or front post, and left handed to boot.

Here is a post of me actually shooting- it is a training clip, so only the shooter and rifle are in the picture; and a few other pics that may lend credit to my comments-sporting and hunting as well as position shooting..

http://s1115.photobucket.com/u...oadingMovie.mp4.html

Again, best to you.

31 October 2013, 00:58

shootaway

Thanks for the video but since you are shooting almost at rest or almost from a bench,groups are expected to be very tight.How far were you shooting in the video?

31 October 2013, 02:04

HPMaster

200 yds at my back yard range-demonstrating that it is possible for a LH AR shooter to keep the buttstock in the shoulder, with a bit of difficulty. Doing so helps to reduce the vertical variation of POI due to changing shoulder/stock/cheek welds & pressures.

The same target MR52,as in the first posting- reduced 600 yd target for 200yds.

The Win M70 target was fired with 200 grn Nosler Partitions, and was 5 shots at 100yds, sitting with sling, as was the little buck, killed at 90yds.
I full range competition, what you saw in the video is how it is done at 600 yds. The 10 ring is 2 MOA (approx. 12" dia). it is a challenge for iron sights, espc. mil type post and peep.