2506 for big game like elk and moose!

30 June 2011, 08:27

China Fleet Sailor

quote:
Originally posted by BUFFOOLIO:
quote:
Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Why not just get a real gun and not worry about it?

Yes. For Yes to get real gun. 25-06 is toy only for fox or rabbit. 338 for elk moose or cows.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On the one hand, I am forced to admit that nothing I shot with the .25-06 weren't knocked on their ass. On the other, they ain't dead either.

So how come I convinced myself I was cooking them?

Actually, when you look at things that way, there is no other hand. It all adds up to the .25-06 being some sort of pipsqueck that couldn't hurt a fly.

Here I was, dining on the sausage of the unkilled. The eggs tomorrow just won't be the same.

30 June 2011, 08:37

BUFFOOLIO

quote:
Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by BUFFOOLIO:
quote:
Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Why not just get a real gun and not worry about it?

Yes. For Yes to get real gun. 25-06 is toy only for fox or rabbit. 338 for elk moose or cows.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On the one hand, I am forced to admit that nothing I shot with the .25-06 weren't knocked on their ass. On the other, they ain't dead either.

So how come I convinced myself I was cooking them?

Actually, when you look at things that way, there is no other hand. It all adds up to the .25-06 being some sort of pipsqueck that couldn't hurt a fly.

Here I was, dining on the sausage of the unkilled. The eggs tomorrow just won't be the same.

Moose tartar. Funny. Lucky moose not spank you with woman gun. You have recipe for sausage?

30 June 2011, 08:39

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by yes:

does anyone use the 2506 for hunting big games like elk and moose?
what is your opinion on this matter?

No I don't.....my opinion?...There are a lot of quite cheap .30-06 rifles sitting in used racks.....if I can afford the hunt, I can afford the rifle.....simple as that!

30 June 2011, 09:22

China Fleet Sailor

quote:
Originally posted by BUFFOOLIO:
quote:
Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by BUFFOOLIO:
quote:
Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Why not just get a real gun and not worry about it?

Yes. For Yes to get real gun. 25-06 is toy only for fox or rabbit. 338 for elk moose or cows.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On the one hand, I am forced to admit that nothing I shot with the .25-06 weren't knocked on their ass. On the other, they ain't dead either.

So how come I convinced myself I was cooking them?

Actually, when you look at things that way, there is no other hand. It all adds up to the .25-06 being some sort of pipsqueck that couldn't hurt a fly.

Here I was, dining on the sausage of the unkilled. The eggs tomorrow just won't be the same.

Moose tartar. Funny. Lucky moose not spank you with woman gun. You have recipe for sausage?

I actually drop it off someplace. I'm pretty good at carving it up into steaks, roasts, and stew meat, though. I don't think the sausage would be beyond me, though.

Yeah, and it wasn't a moose. And no, it didn't spank me even though I shot it with a girl's gun.

30 June 2011, 11:13

yes

what about 6,5x55

it has killed and still kills more moose than any other calibers in scandinavia!! and has not much more muscle than a 2506!! idea was a very light rifle with enough power for hunting sheep.goat,and maybe moose or elk if they cross your road!!

30 June 2011, 11:34

mho

I once had the opportunity to take a shot with a quarter bore on an Oryx (Gemsbok) - not exactly an Elk, I know, but a large tough animal nevertheless. The caliber happened to be a .257 Wby, but I think that is of little consequence compared to a .25-06.

The shot would probably have killed the Gemsbok (which had also been hit with a .308 cal 180 grs bullet), but if I would have needed to track the animal after the shot, I would have been up the creek without a paddle. The exit wound from the quarter bore was so small that there was nary a drop of blood available for tracking.

You can kill almost anything with any caliber. Personally, I have no need for the small calibers for heavy game.

- mike

30 June 2011, 11:50

China Fleet Sailor

quote:
Originally posted by yes:
what about 6,5x55

What about it? I don't think much of the idea. But go back and look at how much I think about killing something the size of elk or moose with a .25-06. I just adnmitted you could do it.

30 June 2011, 12:54

Warrior

quote:
Originally posted by yes:
what about 6,5x55 it has killed and still kills more moose than any other calibers in scandinavia!! and has not much more muscle than a 2506!! idea was a very light rifle with enough power for hunting sheep.goat,and maybe moose or elk if they cross your road!!

I stand corrected, but I understood that the minimum allowed for moose hunting was a 156 gr bullet in the 6,5x55 Swede. Is this correct?

The 25-06 Rem shoots max a 120 grain bullet, and as such has very differnt characteristics.
It shots lighther bullets fast - and low SD bullets too boot.
Whereas the 6.5 mm bullet at 156 gr is a high SD bullet at much lower velocity.

25-06 Rem: 120 gr @ 2,990 fps
6.5x55 mm : 156 @ 2,644 fps

So these two cartridges are really opposites for me at the above loads.
One for long-range work and the other for short-range work.
Bullet performance at short range differ drastically as at high velocity most Soft bullets come apart.

Given the above, the Swede is far more appropriate for moose in my opinion.

Warrior

30 June 2011, 13:36

yes

quote:
Originally posted by Warrior:
quote:
Originally posted by yes:
what about 6,5x55 it has killed and still kills more moose than any other calibers in scandinavia!! and has not much more muscle than a 2506!! idea was a very light rifle with enough power for hunting sheep.goat,and maybe moose or elk if they cross your road!!

I stand corrected, but I understood that the minimum allowed for moose hunting was a 156 gr bullet in the 6,5x55 Swede. Is this correct?
yes it is correct with 156 gr but, actually even 140 grain bullet if driven att 840 meter per second could be used for moose hunting too.
The 25-06 Rem shoots max a 120 grain bullet, and as such has very differnt characteristics.
It shots lighther bullets fast - and low SD bullets too boot.
Whereas the 6.5 mm bullet at 156 gr is a high SD bullet at much lower velocity.

25-06 Rem: 120 gr @ 2,990 fps
6.5x55 mm : 156 @ 2,644 fps

So these two cartridges are really opposites for me at the above loads.
One for long-range work and the other for short-range work.
Bullet performance at short range differ drastically as at high velocity most Soft bullets come apart.

Given the above, the Swede is far more appropriate for moose in my opinion.

Warrior

6.5x55 can be loaded with 120-125 gr bullet at comparable velocities to 2506 and still have the advantage of heavier bullets like 156 gr and the difference in bullet diameter is negligiable .257 va .264.
and with invention of monolithic expanding bullets the virtue of heavy bullets for better pentration is no more valid.
a much less heavy mono bullet can penetrate as well as a heavy soft point lead core bullet.
the difference between 2506 and 6,5x55 is indeed very marginal.
a lighter bullet like 120 gr @ higher VO actually has a better trajectory too.

30 June 2011, 21:03

clemson88

Surely if folks can get in close enough to kill game with a stick with a string shooting another stick, one should be able to get close enough for a head or neck shot on these animals with a .25/06. After all, the .25/06 is a high power rifle, no matter what these guys are saying.

30 June 2011, 21:48

stuckey

a 25.06 will kill an elk with the right bullet. and the right shot. but are you willing to wait for the right shot and risk not filling your tag. i doubt that it will exit with a shoulder shot i dont care what bullet you use there is a hell of alot of flesh and bone to get through.

30 June 2011, 23:28

scubapro

Have a look to a good quality bullet - and I don´t doubt that it will work well...

I also hunt wild boars with my .270 Win (which is similar to you 25-06) with just 130grs bullets - Woodleigh PP in my case... and they all droped on the spot... :-))

30 June 2011, 23:41

Antelope Sniper

Yes, Obviously you know there are some potential issues using the 25.06 for Elk and Moose, or you wouldn't have asked the question.

You can take a 25.06 with a 125gr bullet.
30.06 with a 180gr bullet, or
.338 with a 225gr bullet, all fired around the same velocity.

If the choice was, take the 25.06, or not go hunting, well, I'd take the 25.06. If reasonalby avaliable, either of the other two, or something else in their league would be a better choice.

01 July 2011, 00:56

Warrior

Minimum calibers are imposed by various countries and I believe that the regulation for Moose hunting is governed in Sweden by bullet weight and impact energy, not the caliber.

Bullets of 10.1 gram ............. 2,000 kilo joules @ 100m
Bullets less than 10.1 kg ...... 2,700 kilo joules @100 m

It is quite interesting that impact energy is specified at 100 m, unlike some other countries with minimum laws.

Also we know it is not energy per se that kills as it is hardly an equitable basis to describe killing power.
Nevertheless, that is what it is. (South Agfrica has now gone to bullet weights with no reference to energy levels)

The problem would come when or if the ban on the use of lead ammo becomes law in Sweden.
Initially it was targeted for 2008, but I am not sure what transpired afterwards.

Should this be the case, and lighter monolithic bullets be used only, than it would knock the 6.5 x 55 mm effectively of the list as well, and one will have to use even a more powerful cartridge.

This will knock the 25-06 Rem completely off the list to achieve 2,700 joules at 100 m. (2,700 joules = 1,991 Foot-ponds). Monolithic bullets used in the 25-06 Rem will be even lighter than 120 grains, and so would not achieve the desired energy level.

This would the call for even more powerful cartridges to be used and so even the 6.5x55 mm will lose its favour, and we will see a turnaround in cartridge choice in future.

I would appreciate if someone can give us the current position on this in Sweden.

Thanks
Warrior

01 July 2011, 02:01

yes

quote:
Originally posted by Warrior:
Minimum calibers are imposed by various countries and I believe that the regulation for Moose hunting is governed in Sweden by bullet weight and impact energy, not the caliber.

Bullets of 10.1 gram ............. 2,000 kilo joules @ 100m
Bullets less than 10.1 kg ...... 2,700 kilo joules @100 m

It is quite interesting that impact energy is specified at 100 m, unlike some other countries with minimum laws.

Also we know it is not energy per se that kills as it is hardly an equitable basis to describe killing power.
Nevertheless, that is what it is. (South Agfrica has now gone to bullet weights with no reference to energy levels)

The problem would come when or if the ban on the use of lead ammo becomes law in Sweden.
Initially it was targeted for 2008, but I am not sure what transpired afterwards.

Should this be the case, and lighter monolithic bullets be used only, than it would knock the 6.5 x 55 mm effectively of the list as well, and one will have to use even a more powerful cartridge.

This will knock the 25-06 Rem completely off the list to achieve 2,700 joules at 100 m. (2,700 joules = 1,991 Foot-ponds). Monolithic bullets used in the 25-06 Rem will be even lighter than 120 grains, and so would not achieve the desired energy level.

This would the call for even more powerful cartridges to be used and so even the 6.5x55 mm will lose its favour, and we will see a turnaround in cartridge choice in future.

I would appreciate if someone can give us the current position on this in Sweden.

Thanks
Warrior

many 6.5x55 guns even with 1/8 inch twist rate can't stabilise 140 grain monolithic bullets and pushing a very long 140 gr bullet att 840 ms to get the enery desired for reaching that level is nearly impossible, but the new trend had reached sweden too. the new NORMA KALAHARI line is actually very lightbulets at high velocity for african plain games.
for ex.
270 win loaded with 120 gr!!! bullet
7mm rem mag with 125 gr!!
3006 and 300 mags only 150 grain bullets moly coated HP bullets

01 July 2011, 02:18

Warrior

Yes,

Has the ban on lead bullets been introduced in Sweden?

Warrior

01 July 2011, 03:04

yes

not yet, but it is on it's way!!

02 July 2011, 01:23

JabaliHunter

quote:
Originally posted by yes:
Hi
does anyone use the 2506 for hunting big games like elk and moose?
what is your opinion on this matter?
all the best
yes

No
Not a clever idea in my opinion. There must be hundreds of good 9,3s to choose from in Sweden, no?

02 July 2011, 03:28

packrattusnongratus

02 July 2011, 03:32

MLG

If one is REALLY serious about minimising the chances of wounding an animal and losing it as a result, then a 25-06 is not the caliber to use on Elk. Its that simple.

02 July 2011, 03:47

George Semel

Some 25 years ago if not a bit longer Bob Milek the Wyoming Guide and Outfitter and writer wrote about going out one light snowy day to collect his winters elk, he took a 25-06 because he knew it was zeroed in. No problem he stated that the 100 gr bullet expanded taking out the top of the heart. Bullets are a heck of a lot better now than then, I would think any of the really good ones like the barnes will do just fine. After all Elk are not bullet proof. While I would like a bit more gun, I know far to many that make due with 243's and they seem to always have elk steaks in the refer.

02 July 2011, 15:44

Greg K

quote:
Originally posted by George Semel:
Some 25 years ago if not a bit longer Bob Milek the Wyoming Guide and Outfitter and writer wrote about going out one light snowy day to collect his winters elk, he took a 25-06 because he knew it was zeroed in. No problem he stated that the 100 gr bullet expanded taking out the top of the heart. Bullets are a heck of a lot better now than then, I would think any of the really good ones like the barnes will do just fine. After all Elk are not bullet proof. While I would like a bit more gun, I know far to many that make due with 243's and they seem to always have elk steaks in the refer.

As I recall, Milek often used the 25/06 for elk as he didn't care for heavy recoiling rifles.

02 July 2011, 16:26

RPW

Guy I work with went on a moose hunt. He got a moose but it took 4 shots from his 338 win mag. All but one were deadly hits. I dont quite get the interest in using a gun that is not up to the task. Sure a 2506 could kill it but there are too many things that can go wrong. My friend shot a big 8 point buck last years through the lungs with his 2506. It ran far enough to run right into the next hunter who put the deer down. 2 years ago I shot a deer through the lungs with my 338 and it didnt move an inch. There is a difference!

02 July 2011, 19:35

olarmy

Don't blame the cartridge when a deer runs a ways after being hit. The bullet and the shot placement are MUCH more important than what's on the headstamp. I've taken a boatload of deer with the 25/06 and the 257AI. Put the right bullet in the right place and they don't take a step. And put a bullet from a 338 behind the shoulder, thru the lungs and they will likely do their "death run" before they drop.

02 July 2011, 19:51

chuck375

I have no opinion on using the 25-06 for moose, since I've never hunted them. But I have guided for elk and bear and hunted plenty of them on my own. I'd rather have a hunter who is good shot with a 25-06 using premium bullets (Nosler Partitions are always good) than a hunter who flinches shooting his 300 or 338 mag or who does not practice enough with them because of the recoil. A heart lung shot with a 25-06 will beat an elk shot in the gut or ass with a 338 anytime.

02 July 2011, 19:56

TomP

quote:
Originally posted by George Semel:
Some 25 years ago if not a bit longer Bob Milek the Wyoming Guide and Outfitter and writer wrote about going out one light snowy day to collect his winters elk, he took a 25-06 because he knew it was zeroed in. No problem he stated that the 100 gr bullet expanded taking out the top of the heart. Bullets are a heck of a lot better now than then, I would think any of the really good ones like the barnes will do just fine. After all Elk are not bullet proof. While I would like a bit more gun, I know far to many that make due with 243's and they seem to always have elk steaks in the refer.

Jack Hooker had a 243 in camp on a hunt I went on in the Bob Marshall Wilderness, along with a revolver.

02 July 2011, 22:01

Scott King

Since bows and arrows, handguns and black powder rifles are used every year to kill moose and elk it could be assumed that used withing pre determined perameters a 25-06 would perform adequately.

My uncle used to hunt Oregon for elk every year and one of the fellows in camp used a 25-06 to great effect. I was made to understand that he picked his shots carefully and commonly had elk steaks in the freezer.

Like the bow, hangun and blackpowder hunters I'd think you'd have to accept the possibility of not making some shots and the possibility of going home empty handed at the end of the hunt. I'm not saying thats wrong and of course thats true no matter what cartridge you carry, but there you are none the less, just like the bow hunters.

Only because its new to me and I'd like to use it on game, this fall I intend to carry my .458 win for moose. I sure don't think I need something that large but what the heck.

02 July 2011, 22:22

Antelope Sniper

quote:
Since bows and arrows, handguns and black powder rifles are used every year to kill moose and elk it could be assumed that used withing pre determined perameters a 25-06 would perform adequately.

Scott, Bow and Blackpowder season is during the Rutt. Rifle season isn't. It's entirely possible to call a bull elk in to 25 yards while you are in full cammo, and all he's thinking about is making more little elk. It's a much different story when you are in blaze orange, the rut is over, and the elk are warry because they've been bugled, poked, and smoked for several months.

03 July 2011, 06:36

chuck375

A 25-06 shooting a 120g Partition should be good out to 250 yards for elk if you hit them in the heart / lungs. I used a 243 for several years on elk at that range until I bought my 270 and none of them got up ...

03 July 2011, 11:29

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
quote:
Since bows and arrows, handguns and black powder rifles are used every year to kill moose and elk it could be assumed that used withing pre determined perameters a 25-06 would perform adequately.

Scott, Bow and Blackpowder season is during the Rutt. Rifle season isn't. It's entirely possible to call a bull elk in to 25 yards while you are in full cammo, and all he's thinking about is making more little elk. It's a much different story when you are in blaze orange, the rut is over, and the elk are warry because they've been bugled, poked, and smoked for several months.

I've been 25 yards from trophy bull elk during rifle season. Idaho, Montana, Washington.

My assertion remains accurate. Used within pre determined perameters a 25-06 is capable. If in fact no shot is presented that matches a 25-06's capabilities, well then as in the case of the bow and arrow I guess thats just the way it is.

How fast can a 120g TSX in .25 cal be driven?

I'm guessing plenty sufficient.