I remember the old Mexican fellow in Las Vegas, N.M. once who brought his M 94 RIFLE (26" barrel) in to the gunshop where I was working to have us try to get it shooting again. The barrel threads were worn so badly that if you shook the thing, the muzzle flopped around in a 3" circle! The stock looked like it had been carved from a dry, sandblasted hunk of an old cedar fencepost. The bore was so dark you couldn't see if there were any lands & grooves left, and you could insert a .30/30 cartridge into the muzzle all the way to the neck!



We tried to convince the old boy that he should really trade it in for a newer, safer rifle, but he'd have none of that, thank you! Hell, he killed a 300-pouind mule deer last year with that rifle - at 700 yards!!

Excellent points about expansion and wind drift. I wasn't meaning to discount those factors, just commenting about how we do seem to get overwhelmed by velocity and energy figures. In my opinion, there are five factors that, in the right combinations, will achieve adequate bullet performance on game:
(1) bullet placement
(2) bullet construction (toughness, expansion, retained weight)
(3) bullet weight
(4) bullet diameter
(5) impact velocity

In the right combinations, these factors determine if the bullet will penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals and beyond, and cause sufficient tissue destruction in the process. The implication being that many mundane cartridges are adequate farther out than we might be led to believe, given all the current magnum mania.

My shoulder sure likes the mundane ones!

Okay Paul, IF the bullet hit, it could kill the deer. But it isn't going to.

Your write up was so well done and entertaining I may pull your chain again some day. roger

I have shot enough deer, bear, and elk with the 30-30 Win. carbine that I sure would never underestimate it..It was my saddle gun as a kid growing up along with a 25-35 Win. both of which I still have and both of which I still hunt with. In fact I was hunting Mule deer with mine for the last 3 days with my grandson, and were still looking for a couple of big ones..

I have made a number of devine intervention shots with these old guns over the years and in my mispent youth that would blow your skirt up...

One thing I have found about the 30-30 is the perfect bullets that are available for it, they all perform with perfection and never seem to fail...

Those that look with distain on the old girl, have read too much and have not hunted a hell of a lot IMO....

Ray:

We are talking about a 30-30 at 700 yards. If you think that is within the "old girl's" range, then you have been drinking too much.

AAW - I agree the chances of hitting a deer at 700 yds are mighty slim...but what Ray is saying about the bullets from this old gun is sure true.

I'll bet you if the 30/30 DID come down and hit a deer in the vitals at that range...it would kill him dead...and pretty dang quick.