The Accurate Reloading Forums
What would you choose?
25 December 2009, 02:34
MileHighShooterWhat would you choose?
Ok, say you have a 30-06 length action, and access to cheap 21" barrels in .284
Would you go for a 7x57, or maybe a .284 Win? Barrel length is preset, so there is no changing it. The longer 06 box would allow for sitting 150+ gr bullets, or just long bullets like Barnes, further out so you don't lose capacity.
Plain ol' deer size critter rifle
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
25 December 2009, 02:40
ramrod340IN a 21" I'd go 7x57 load some 140Accubonds as long as the throat would allow and go hunting. MY wife has the same rig in 22" and has taken everything from coyote to elk, oryx and everything between.
As usual just my $.02
Paul K
25 December 2009, 04:11
30378The 7x57 is nice but I would not overlook the 7mm-08 using a short barrel.
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25 December 2009, 04:27
mad_jack02One up for the 7-08
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25 December 2009, 04:42
jwp475Put me down on the side of the 7 Mauser (7X57)
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25 December 2009, 05:31
MileHighShooterIts a 30-06 length action, which is why I didn't include the 7-08
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
25 December 2009, 06:20
Mike_Dettorre7x57
efficient case...you won't need more than th 21 inches to get all the umphh out of it
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
25 December 2009, 06:30
merlinroni think you know my answer!
25 December 2009, 07:24
vipPut me down for a 7x57. Paul.
25 December 2009, 08:34
thndrchiken7x57
25 December 2009, 09:12
Tapper2I have a 7mm Rem. with a 19" barrel. What it looses in velocity it makes up for in accuracy.
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25 December 2009, 16:27
tom hollandI would do the 284 and seat the bullets out further.
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25 December 2009, 19:21
billtrev7x57
25 December 2009, 19:25
Magnum Hunter1The Mauser
25 December 2009, 19:29
the jiggerWhy not the 280 Rem. or the 280AI ?
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25 December 2009, 19:38
MileHighShooterJigger,
if it was a longer barrel, that would be my choice, but cutting a 280/AI down to 21" prett much negates the added powder and makes it a loud flashy 7x57 or 284
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
25 December 2009, 19:53
SDhunterWhat action?
25 December 2009, 19:54
MileHighShooter1903 Springfield
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
25 December 2009, 19:56
Bent Fossdalquote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Jigger,
if it was a longer barrel, that would be my choice, but cutting a 280/AI down to 21" prett much negates the added powder and makes it a loud flashy 7x57 or 284
Huh? What difference is there in a .280Rem and a .284Win?
I'd say you are limited to the 7x57 - and be happy with it!
Bent Fossdal
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26 December 2009, 05:42
ar corey280 Remington
26 December 2009, 06:04
pinotguySorry to be contrarian but I'd go with the 7x64 Brenneke. If it was down to your initial two choices, I'd go with the 7x57 Mauser.
26 December 2009, 06:18
Alberta CanuckI'll gladly accept whichever one you want to send me
But, IF you wanna make it special just for me, I'd prefer the .280 Rem to best use that nice long magazine box and those existing feed rails for best cartridge feeding guidance.
I'll normally load it down to about mid-book loads, but if I wanna roast some mean critter at the same time I put a slug in his spine via his mouth, it'll do that too.
And with something akin to Norma 203 or N-140 or 150 it won't lose so much velocity that he or I will miss it any.
Sounds like a nice decision to have to make. Jane Christmas to you (Merry's "hottie" twin) and Happy New Year.
My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still.
26 December 2009, 07:31
MileHighShooterShort barrel.....useless in 280 IMO.
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
26 December 2009, 08:08
Alberta Canuckquote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Short barrel.....useless in 280 IMO.
Well of course you are entitled to your opinion. But you can certainly get more out of a .280 in a 21" barrel than you can out of a 7x57 or a 7-08 in the same length barrel, if you use the right powders. Not a lot more, but some.
I have a .270 in a pre-'64 Win FW with a 22" barrel (only 1" longer than your 21" tube project gun) and it has cheerfully bang-flopped a good many mule deer on opposing ridges in the southern Alberta hills of mixed woods and grassy mini-prairies. That's why I still have it.
Besides, I thought you asked us what WE would choose. Several of us have told you the .280 Rem because that IS what we would choose for OUR use.
You pick whatever floats your boat.
And Jane Christmas tells me she's busy....some guy she met at the country club yesterday, called "Tiger". You'll have to settle for Merry.
My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still.
26 December 2009, 09:30
ar coreyThe .270 Win, .280 Rem. and the 30-06 all perform very nicely in 21"-22" barrels.
280 Remington on a 21" barrel would be loud and shy 100 fps yet cheap in this instance. Personally, I would pass on the deal and build a weapon properly.
27 December 2009, 01:29
MileHighShooterquote:
Originally posted by ar corey:
The .270 Win, .280 Rem. and the 30-06 all perform very nicely in 21"-22" barrels.
280 Remington on a 21" barrel would be loud and shy 100 fps yet cheap in this instance. Personally, I would pass on the deal and build a weapon properly.
And what is "properly"? If I don't want to build a 280 Rem....how am I doing this wrong?
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
27 December 2009, 01:48
NakihunterI would go for the 280 AI - brass & dies are available so you do not have to fire form. I know the barrel is a bit short but you should still get 3050 fps with 140 gr bullets & 2850 fps with 160 grs.
My Sako Finbear has a 24 inch barrel & I get 3000 fps with 160s & the cases last 10 reloads or more before I retire them.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
27 December 2009, 02:49
Allan DeGrootquote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
quote:
Originally posted by ar corey:
The .270 Win, .280 Rem. and the 30-06 all perform very nicely in 21"-22" barrels.
280 Remington on a 21" barrel would be loud and shy 100 fps yet cheap in this instance. Personally, I would pass on the deal and build a weapon properly.
And what is "properly"? If I don't want to build a 280 Rem....how am I doing this wrong?
"Loading Properly" for shorter barrels involves simply using the faster propellants for that cartridge buller combination.
The longer barrels offer no advantage with short propellants and short barrels with slow propellants... well, either you get the idea by now or...
If you wana .284 bore cartridge and are building it on a Springfield action the only cartridges I'd consider would be the 7x57 and the 280rem.
And I'd lean heavily towards the 280rem.
The 7x64Brenneke? unless you live in europe only elitist snobbery would make you choose
it and at that the difference between it and the 280rem is at best trivial.
As for the 284Win? IMO It was stupid when introduced and hasn't gotten any smarter
in the last four decades.
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27 December 2009, 06:57
ramrod340I have my 280PDK (basically a 280Griggs plus a couple grs) built on a 23" barrel. If I had it to do again I would have gone 24 or even 25". YOu could build a 280 or even 280AI on a 21" you would lose a lot of the advantage of the AI since you wouldn't be using slow powders and needing the larger capacity. Nothing says you can't. A normal 7x57 has a long throat a 7x57 with the bullet seated long would take advantge of the magazine and throat. I have a 7x57, 280(factory 22"),280PDK 7mag and 7STW. Like I said in a 21" I would opt for the 7x57. Could the 280 work? Sure.
We all have opinons and likes and dislikes so just like there is Ford and Chevy owners we will never all agree. If you REALLY want a 280 go for it I wouldn't let a 21" stop me. After all you were considering a 284. In an 06 magazine basically the same capacity.
As usual just my $.02
Paul K
27 December 2009, 07:17
Dr. Lou7x64 or 280 Rem
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27 December 2009, 07:33
JonPAlso, ich wuerde den sieben mal siebenundfuenfzig nehmen (I would take the 7 x 57!!)...great cartridge...have seen it take everything from fox to red stag...hard to beat.
27 December 2009, 10:04
seafire/B17G7/08 or 7 x 57...either one would be an excellent choice...
27 December 2009, 10:35
SevensThe 7x57, but write "275 Rigby" on the barrel.
28 December 2009, 00:11
gunmaker487x57 and throat it so that a 150 gr flat base bullet can be seated with its base flush withe the base of the case neck.
Just my thoughts
28 December 2009, 00:30
nordrsetaquote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
say you have a 30-06 length action, and access to cheap 21" barrels in .284
Would you go for a 7x57, or maybe a .284 Win?
I wouldn't cut on the feed rails of a good 1903 action just to make it take a 284 (or a 7mm08 for that matter). If the 1903 will feed 7x57 without tweaking that's how I'd barrel it (within the limits you've set). If it won't feed the the Mauser round then cut a 280 Remington chamber. If the barrel in question is skinny enough you might make a nice Mannlicher-style sporter out of your scenario.
28 December 2009, 01:22
MileHighShooterNord,
In a previous life this 1903 feed an improved cart, so the rails probably wouldn't be a big deal. Hopefully they wouldn't with the x57 either
The barrel is unturned, but already cut to 21". You're right on point there, MS style was what I was thinking. Just have to wait and see if the barrels still there tomorrow!
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
28 December 2009, 02:27
montdougquote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Ok, say you have a 30-06 length action, and access to cheap 21" barrels in .284
Would you go for a 7x57, or maybe a .284 Win? Barrel length is preset, so there is no changing it. The longer 06 box would allow for sitting 150+ gr bullets, or just long bullets like Barnes, further out so you don't lose capacity.
Plain ol' deer size critter rifle
.280 Ackley Improved for 160 grain bullets. No question.
"If a man buys a rifle at a gun show and his wife doesn't know it"...Did he really buy a rifle?
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28 December 2009, 02:46
SDhunterWith the details provided above, I would go with a 280 AI due to the feed rail thing. You don't have to load it to the gills, but the extra powder capacity is available if needed. I would use 140gr bullets.
An 03 just screams American cartridge to me. If it was some form of a mauser I would suggest the 7x57 or the 7x64.
28 December 2009, 05:20
MileHighShooterquote:
Originally posted by SDhunter:
An 03 just screams American cartridge to me. If it was some form of a mauser I would suggest the 7x57 or the 7x64.
You mean like American gun makers attempts to basically copy the masuer design and call it their own? LoL Always found that funny...its American made yes, but its a direct copy with a few differences so its not just a copy. Kind of like when S&W made the first Sigma and Glock suited them.
I dont buy into the american = us cartridge thing, cause you'd maybe find what, 1 out of 20 people who would suggest the 7x64 over the 280 just because its a Mauser action. Actions an action, who cares what goes in it.
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
28 December 2009, 05:30
LE270quote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
You mean like American gun makers attempts to basically copy the masuer design and call it their own? LoL Always found that funny...its American made yes, but its a direct copy with a few differences so its not just a copy.
As you may know, it was sufficiently like the Mauser that Mauser sued the US for patent infringement and won their suit. I understand that the US had to pay Mauser $1 for every Springfield '03 made. (That was back in the day when $1 was real money -- a day's wage for some workingmen.)
Jack O'Connor wrote that in every point where the Springfield differed from the Mauser, the Mauser was better.
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