Heaviest 308 caliber hunting bullet???

04 April 2002, 16:15

<leo>

You gotta consider these 250 grain barnes will probably not stabalize in an '06 either. Sierra reccomends a 1 in 9 twist for their 240 grain .30 cal. matchking bullet. The 220 .308 bullet has a sectional density of .331 which is better than the 300 grain .375 at .305sd and 175 grain 7mm at .310sd and 250 grain .338 at .312sd. Only the 400 grain .416 and 500 grain .458 compare equal at .330 and .341, respectively. I just think you are overdoing this heavy for caliber bullet thing with anything more than a 220 grain .308 bullet.

04 April 2002, 16:47

dan belisle

Soc, it really depends on the rifle and barrel twist. In a 30-06 or 308 you would probably need a 9" twist, but with a little more velocity you can get away with a slightly slower twist. Now having painted myself into a corner, I have to say that I've owned and come across rifles that just don't obey the rules, so if you really want to know, buy a box and try them. Theory is great, but it's just theory until you prove or disprove it. - Dan

04 April 2002, 18:40

Socrates

You guys are the best...

Anyway, at least I have excellent alternatives to a 338-06.

I would feel comfortable with a 250 grain barnes in a 30-06, loaded with a full case of what ever. Mine has a 26 inch barrel.

I have yet to see the real advantage to short barrels. But, that's just me.

But, I now have intelligent questions to ask about a 338-06.

Why bother rebarreling, if that bullet is avaliable?

Leo: I'm all for a 240 grain matchking in a 300 Rum. I think that weight bullet, and design, for long range shooting, is a fantastic combination.

I am not the one going living in Wyoming, with large Grizz in the area I live, protected to the limits by the feds.

Apparently, bears can become aggressive, and, they figure out people aren't going to hurt them, and take advantage of it.

I KNOW Grizz are smart.

Anyway, thanks to all of your contributions, I will be able to ask why this person wants to go to the 338-06, over the 250 grain barnes 30-06.

I'll post something about his response, but, I strongly suspect the answer is going to be something like,
"I can get the same bullet weight, going the same speed, with less pressure, using a larger bore, and larger wound channel, then a longer, narrower bullet, in the same size cartridge."

That's just a guess, however...
gs

05 April 2002, 03:04

<eldeguello>

The 1/10" twist in the '06 originated with the .30/40 Krag, which stabilized the 220 roundnose at velocities around or less than 2000 feet per second. The 1/10" twist of the .30/06 is actually faster than necessary for all .308 bullets under 220 grains!! I believe the 1/10" twist would be OK for the 250-grain Barnes Original, which is a roundose bullet A LOT SHORTER THAN THE 240 Sierra matchking!! After all, it is bullet LENGTH, not weight, which determines how fast it must rotate.

05 April 2002, 10:10

dan belisle

Eldeguello is correct. The length of the projectile is what decides on the twist required. I sometimes hunt in grizzly country up here (and yes, they have more rights than people, although we do have a grizzly season), and a heavy weight 35 makes me feel a lot better. Would it be my choice to specifically hunt grizzly? In the 358 Norma and up, yes. But most of the time I'm in grizzly country I'm looking for elk or sheep, so a compromise is usually my choice. FWIW - Dan

05 April 2002, 11:11

Socrates

Ok:
The answer I got to my questions went something like this:

338-06 OKH: In respect of Elmer Keith.

338 better bullet selection then the 35's.

Good, respected, heavy bullets, that have more diameter, and a history of working on bears.

Figures this is the max he wants in a combination rifle, that he can hunt everything with, without having to carry the 375 around.

You rarely get more then one shot at a charging grizz, and caliber, and bullet weight, is more important then velocity.

Makes sense to me...

05 April 2002, 17:34

dan belisle

The 338 only has more bullet selection in the lighter bullets. When it comes to the heavier end, the 35 has the weight (Ok, it's a bad play on words) and the selection. - Dan

05 April 2002, 19:12

Paul B

Let's put this one to rest. A 30-06 with a 1 in 12 inch twist will stabilize a 220 gr, round nose bullet. So will the .308 Win. with a 1 in 12 inch twist. I have a 30-06 with a 1 in 12 twist that will do 1.5 inches all day long, and a Win. Mod. 70 .308 that does 3/8 inch with Sierra 220 gr. round nosed bullets. I could probably get the 06 to shoot a bit tighter, but what the heck? It does the job just fine. In Jack O'Connor's book, THE HUNTING RIFLE, he mentions the fact that his Springfield custom sporter (I think that's the rifle, but it might have been his Mauser)with a Sukalle barrel with 1 in 12 inch twist had no problem stabilizing 220 gr. bullets.
If you don't believe me, find a rifle with a 1 in 12 inch twist and try it for yourself. Better yet, if anyone is in the Tucson area, E-mail me and I'll show you. I challenged one gun writer on this very subject, and he just about called me a liar in an article he later did. I just may write that gun rag and reissue my challenge to him publicly. I just love nailing the "eggspurts" in the gun rags. Makes my day.

Paul B.

05 April 2002, 20:24

Socrates

Dan:
Don't see much difference between the bullet selections, well, sort of. It's usually two 35's and 3 338's.

So what? Isn't bullet selection a bit over rated?

When I find a good bullet, I buy a ton of em, and stick with it.

Since I don't reload for anyone right now, why bother with a bunch of different bullets?
In fact, when I found a good load, I would leave the press as is, so I wouldn't have to change all the stuff all the time.

Just my two cents.

If you want bullet selection, stay with 30 caliber.

06 April 2002, 06:21

dan belisle

Soc, I believe that in the 35's you can go up to 310 gr (Woodleigh). 338's max out with the 300 gr (usually Sierra). Between the two calibers I would expect to see very little differance on game. However, (and to me it's a big however) the 35 just plain makes bigger holes. Kind of why I think 45's work better in handguns. If you let more daylight through, it usually is a plus. - Dan

06 April 2002, 08:16

Socrates

Dan:
That's why I find this a weird selection.

The guy is famous for large bore handguns.

I can't figure out why he doesn't neck up to 375 or at least 350. Figure the 338 must have a great rep on bears, at the distances he'll be seeing, and, he figures he's good enough, and smart enough, to stay out of the bears' way, which, I know is the case.

It's just really weird. Best analogy I can use is Elmer Keith using a 22 rifle, weird.

07 April 2002, 08:57

p dog shooter

Just read a article on 85 brown bears being shot broke it down to cal and how many shots it took the 30 cals did just as well as the 338s and 375 haveing very slight lead like a couple of percent. Make a lot more defferants how where you place the shot then caliber.

07 April 2002, 11:13

dan belisle

Always true PD Shooter! The bigger bores just make us poor maladjusted compensating homosapiens feel better. - Dan

07 April 2002, 11:45

Socrates

PDog:
How many occured due to a chargin, territorial Grizzly, when someone was out in the woods, looking for something else, in a place that doesn't allow you to shoot bears??

04 May 2002, 16:39

<KilgoreT>

quote:
Originally posted by Socrates:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/orig.htm
Ok: So you can get a 250 grain barnes original for 30-06. Are they accurate?
gs

With my SAKO 18.5" carbine in .30-06, the Barnes 200 gr. "X" and their 250 gr. "Original" will group triples within 1.25", hot or cold. (I measure powder with an RCBS 304 scale to within 1/20th grain and use CCI or Federal match grade primers.)

I have never recovered either from 200#+ mule deer, the way I like it.

06 May 2002, 06:24

Atkinson

In a short action .308 your best bet is and always will be a good premium 180 gr. bullet..the 308 case lacks the powder capacity for longer bullets and the long bullet takes up the precious powder space.

Use a medium action and seat the bullets out?? No, not practical better to use a 30-06 or even a magnum caliber for big bears.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com