Winchester model 70 "claw" difference

07 April 2007, 19:29

Wallace Gaye

I am concidering two different pre 64 model 70s in 338 Winchester. One has the stainless bolt and claw I am used to seeing. The other has a stainless bolt with a black metal claw. Does this represent different periods of manufacture? Is there any significant difference between these two different types of bolt?
Thanks for any insight,
Wallace Gaye

07 April 2007, 19:43

Jim Kobe

The pre-'64s never had stainless extractors or bolts. What you are looking at is probably an extractor that someone has polished, the shiny one. The other is blued and may be original. I think all the bolts were shiny. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Jim

07 April 2007, 19:55

Wallace Gaye

I was unclear in my question. I confused date of manufacture (before 1964)with the action type (pre-64 action). So you are saying that the rifle with the blued extractor was manufactured before 1964. I believe the rifle with the stainless extractor was manufactured much later in 2005 or 2006.

07 April 2007, 20:28

ParaDoc

A friend has a very old M 70 in 22 Hornet. Both the bolt and claw are blued. However I have seen older M 70s with the bolts in the white and blued. Maybe it is a variation in the model or perhaps just year to year differences?

08 April 2007, 03:27

Bryan Chick

My 3 pre-64 mod 70 have blued bolts

08 April 2007, 20:39

El Deguello

quote:
Originally posted by Wallace Gaye:
I was unclear in my question. I confused date of manufacture (before 1964)with the action type (pre-64 action). So you are saying that the rifle with the blued extractor was manufactured before 1964. I believe the rifle with the stainless extractor was manufactured much later in 2005 or 2006.

I believe that to be a pre-64 action, a Model 70 action must have actually been manufactured before 1964. This is despite the fact that Winchester recently made "pre-64 TYPE" CRF actions that had the long, M98-Mauser type extractor and bolt face configuration. The newer "classic" Model 70 Win. CRF actions made after 1964 have some minor differences from the real pre-64's-the two are NOT identical.

ALL the pre-64 Model 70's I have looked at closely have had blued extractors, but the bolts were sometimes left "in the white, and some blued, except for the handles. The handles always seemed to have a matte finish on them similar to the finish on the tops of the receiver rings......

09 April 2007, 00:46

Wallace Gaye

Thanks to you all!
Wallace

09 April 2007, 03:20

Hot Core

Hey Wallace, The "Extractor" has been a problem with M70s for a long time. I would "guess" that someone changed the Extractor to whatever they could get at the time and now you have the mix. Perhaps they intended to change it out to a Stainless Style and just never got around to doing it.

If you do get a M70, contact "triggerguard1" on the Gun Smith Board. They make an Extractor that will totally eliminate that issue as a concern on the M70s.

Best of luck to you.

09 April 2007, 16:18

rugeruser

I have an M70 Super Grade (243Win) manufactured in 1957 that is totally original - it has a jewelled bolt and extractor. No bluing apart from the bolt handle and shroud.

09 April 2007, 23:31

HARDBALLER

quote:
Originally posted by Wallace Gaye:
I am concidering two different pre 64 model 70s in 338 Winchester. One has the stainless bolt and claw I am used to seeing. The other has a stainless bolt with a black metal claw. Does this represent different periods of manufacture? Is there any significant difference between these two different types of bolt?
Thanks for any insight,
Wallace Gaye

Wallace, Are you looking at a pre-64 and a Classic (which were manufactured much later)? The Classic actions have knurled bolt knob handles.

10 April 2007, 00:49

Wallace Gaye

Hardballer. Yes, I think you have it right. The serial number of the older gun is G19091. Does that help?
Thanks
Wallace

10 April 2007, 06:33

Chuck Nelson

quote:
Hey Wallace, The "Extractor" has been a problem with M70s for a long time.

Hot Core, BS!

Please explain to the rest of us "laiman" what exactly was wrong with the extractor on the pre 64 Model 70? And then explain what a "stainless type" extractor is.

10 April 2007, 07:31

John S

I've never seen a real pre '64 M70 with a letter in the s/n. I think what you are looking at is the later "Classic" M70 with the claw extractor like those used on real pre '64 rifles.
All of my pre '64 guns have polished bolt bodies with blued steel extractors. The later "Classic" models that are not stainless steel have engine turned bolt bodies with blued extractors...at least the ones I have owned.

10 April 2007, 09:30

Wallace Gaye

John S
I have a picture of the rifle and bolt but when I drag and drop it into the reply box, the photo appears but the reply box vanishes. Can you tell me how to post this picture?
Thanks
Wallace

10 April 2007, 17:36

ramrod340

quote:
Can you tell me how to post this picture?

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/951100671

10 April 2007, 17:49

Hot Core

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
quote:
Hey Wallace, The "Extractor" has been a problem with M70s for a long time.

Hot Core, BS!

Please explain to the rest of us "laiman" what exactly was wrong with the extractor on the pre 64 Model 70? And then explain what a "stainless type" extractor is.

Hey chuckee, I suppose it would have been more appropriate to have said, one of the numerous problems associated with the M70 design.

For many years the M70 Extractors were "cast" parts. And having them "break" during a Hunt or at the Range actually bothered some people. So, one of the items Matt Williams(triggerguard1) provides is a machined M70 Extractor to eliminate that concern.

The one Wallace is asking about may in fact be fine. It could be a Teflon coated Stainless Extractor that Williams provided, or perhaps it is something else.

Here is a link to a thread about the advantage of a Williams M70 Extractor on the GunSmith Board.

Plenty of threads on that Board about the M70 Extractors. For anyone interested, just go to the Header on the Gun Smith Board, click on the "Find" Button and put "M70 Extractors" in the block. You will find a lot of discussion concerning the M70 Extractors.

Best of luck to you Wallace.

10 April 2007, 18:15

Wallace Gaye

Hope this works

10 April 2007, 18:17

Wallace Gaye

Thanks, Ramrod!

11 April 2007, 00:44

Chuck Nelson

I happen to see the virtue in replacing the extractor on the Winchester model 70 classic. However, the pre 64 is a different animal.

11 April 2007, 04:51

Woodjack

I dont know if this helps or not, But I have seen stainless M70 rifles both with bare finish stainless extractor and on a few less common occasion, blued extractor on stainless action.and this was on brand new factory rifles.

11 April 2007, 23:34

HARDBALLER

quote:
Originally posted by Wallace Gaye:
I am concidering two different pre 64 model 70s in 338 Winchester. One has the stainless bolt and claw I am used to seeing. The other has a stainless bolt with a black metal claw. Does this represent different periods of manufacture? Is there any significant difference between these two different types of bolt?
Thanks for any insight,
Wallace Gaye

If both rifles have knurled bolt knobs, then they are the Classics, manufactured after the 1980's. Other than that I don't know of any significant difference between them.