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Re: Winchester Expands Winchester Short Magnum Li

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23 October 2004, 13:34
wildcat junkie
Re: Winchester Expands Winchester Short Magnum Li
Brad:



What is quite amusing to me is the (somewhat widespread) opinion that another .015" (.308 to .323) would make little diference performance wise while adding another .015", (.323 to .338) would make signifigant gains.



There is no doubt that in a large capacity case, the .338 would surpass the .323 by a signifigant margin. But are we really talking large capacity with the WSM case?



I just feel that Winchester put a lot of thought into what combination would give the best compromise of MV, ME and low perceived recoil in a light weight rifle for packing into (and out of)remote locations such as might be encountered by Elk hunters.



I think it took some courage to risk this decision to introduce what somebody in the corporation felt was the right choice albeit maybe not the most popular one.



On a global scale I would bet that the 8mm bore is second only to the .308 or possibly the 7mm would be second. Anyway the 8mm would be in the top three, far ahead of the .270. After all how many different (proven) cartridges are there in .277?



I just feel it is a shame that in America the 8mm is shunned so. I suspect that this is because of the pitiful U.S. loadings for the 8x57 Mauser (can you say 32 special ballistics). European factory loads reach close to 2700fps with a 200gr bullet. Indeed Breneke reaches something like 2,740fps with a 198gr pill. I doubt that the ol "06" can do any better than that. I can easily get over 2800fps with a 180gr BT in the 8x57 without generating any more pressure than the run of the mill "06" factory load.



If the American public and maybe more importantly, the "gun scribes" can keep an open mind long enough to give this a chance, many people might be pleasantly surprised. After all when Remington introduced the 7mm Mag way back when, 7mm was not all that popular here in the States. I think Remington now has their name on something like seven different 7mm chamberings.
23 October 2004, 13:51
wildcat junkie
In MY best Homer Simpson voice: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Kimber 8400 in 8mmWSM. Droooooooool.

Hey I can dream can't I?
23 October 2004, 02:00
Skibum
[quote
And what about the 270WSM? You didn't adress that brain fart by Winchester/Olin? If they were going to come out with the 7mmWSM anyway. (with the largest selection of avaiable bullets for reloading) why in the world did they develop a 270WSM. I repeat, there is no balistic advantage there whatsoever. < !--color--> Grandpa had a 270 Win so I'm gonna get me a 270WSM. .007" is splitting hairs.



By George, you've got it. It is marketing, pure and simple. Nothing wrong with that as Winchester is in business to sell guns and make money.

Jeff
23 October 2004, 14:04
Brad
Quote:

Kimber 8400



Wildcat, we can agree on that... except make mine the Stainless/Fiberglass model (should have mine next week)!

We'll not agree on much else and I still suspect this a bone thrown to the European market! Rergardless, anyone that lives in upstate NY is OK in my book... what a great part of the country!

Best,

BA
23 October 2004, 11:37
GrandView
RE:"anti-belt propaganda".....

Quote:

Originally posted by allen day....
It's all good propaganda, though, to sell new merchandise to the pilgrims.........



Quite likely, Allen.

However, you fail to acknowledge that the "pro-belted magnum" propaganda preceded this movement by a good number of years, and for the very same reasons.......to sell merchandise to the pilgrims.

Your recap of the successful usage of the belted rounds over the years doesn't provide proof of the necessity of the design. It merely acknowledges that dedicated smiths and manufacturers can overcome feeding problems inherent in belted cases vs. unbelted cases, and dedicated hunters can take game with the cartridges commercially offered.


GV
23 October 2004, 17:13
nelsonted
I went through the posts pretty fast and I can't see any mention of the Remington geniuses that came up with the .280 Remington renamed 7mm Express Remington then returned to the .280 Remington. This is the kind of thing careers are made of!
22 October 2004, 22:18
wildcat junkie
Quote:

Quote:

Besides, a better comparison would be a 200gr .308 compared to a 220gr .323 @ a similar velocity, that is the real world difference. The difference in a 200gr .308 compared to a 200gr .323 of similar construction would be more in the neighborhood of 150-200fps @ similar pressure from the same sized case. That is a sizable difference, about like the difference between a .300 Win and the "06".



This hair-splitten gem has certainly moved you into medal contention...



The difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Win. splitting hairs?

All one needs to do to get 300 mag performance with an 8mm bore is neck up the "06" to 8mm A.K.A. 8mm-06.

And what about the 270WSM? You didn't adress that brain fart by Winchester/Olin? If they were going to come out with the 7mmWSM anyway. (with the largest selection of avaiable bullets for reloading) why in the world did they develop a 270WSM. I repeat, there is no balistic advantage there whatsoever. Pure marketing, nothing else. Grandpa had a 270 Win so I'm gonna get me a 270WSM. .007" is splitting hairs.