We've read so much on the tipped bullets, and they are without a doubt the most popular at this time.

What is the best overall non tipped hunting bullet, and why do you consider it the best.

Now, consider the best of the non tipped, and the best tipped. (most would say Accubonds imo.) If you've got to pick one for typical North American game, what bullet out shines the rest? Please include the newer bullets such as Berger etc. if you've had any experience with them.

I know this is asking for quite a bit, but threads such as this usually give us a lot of valued info. from many of you that have a great amount of experience and knowledge.

Thanks for your input.

The Swift A frame is about as good as it gets.

Sam

Ordinarily I'd say a toss up between Swift A-Frames and Northforks.....but the price difference favors the A-Frames and a fair amount.

I like them because their bonded front ends usually stay in tact and have the advantages of the partition from Nosler. I've also experienced excellent accuracy from both of these bullets and used them both on game including plains game....

Both the A-Frames and Northforks have proven to be excellent in terminal performance for me.

I also have a heavy respect for Nosler's partition bullets but consider the A-Frames a slightly better product as the bonded front partition of the A-Frames retain a higher percent of the mass and normally I get better accuracy from the A-Frames.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
The Swift A frame is about as good as it gets.

Sam

It most certainly is.

I'm going to have to go with the Barnes TSX. Even when it's bad it's good.

Nosler Partitions are a great choice thats what I used before switchin to Accubonds or trophy tips

I like the lead ones that have a copper jacket. I forget which brand though.

Barnes TSX, it works!

250 grain, 35 Caliber,RN., Interlock, infront of a fully loaded 35 Wehlen. No other combo can kill an Elk any deader. roger

While I've never hunted in non of the Americas and thus know little about the topic, based on my reads and other peoples' opinions the Nort Forks should be magnificent.

Or consider Norma Oryx, "the poor man's premium". In Norhtern Europe it's used on a variety of game from roe deer to moose and bear.

- Lars/Finland

The Nosler Partition(in an Adequate Cartridge) is the Benchmark for all other Bullets since 1948. There is a reason for that - it works! Compared to many of the other Bullets mentioned, they are much less expensive and Kill very well.

I DO NOT use, never have used and never will use Politically Correct Bullets(Expanding Solids) approved by boxer/brady/pelosi/schumer/schwartznager/etc.

There ain't no magic bullets!! There ain't no bullet that is gonna compensate for a dumbass that won't spend the trigger time to be able to put the bullet where it needs to go. Despite what the ads and some of the post say.
Way back when, I decided that NPs and Grand Slams were about as good as it got since they killed everything I shot with them very dead, very quickly. I started using them when I started making trip out west to hunt. If you're gonna spend the time and money to make the trip, you want a bullet that will hold up. Of course, being an Easterner, I believe that elk and mule deer were armour plated. After I'd made several trips, I started to wonder, "do I really need a dollar a pop bullet?" I don't shoot long range, nor do I see any need to drive a bullet at warp speed. If the bullet is going near 3000fps, it's time to add a little bullet weight. And so I started using some of the bullets that had done well for me back east of the big river. Damn, them old CoreLokts and Hornady worked. Stick one of a proper calibre and decent weight in the right place and you've got a dead animal. No doubt about it.
I've read the rather learned post about this bullet is slightly softer than that bullet, and this bullet will penetrate three parked cars and a wood stove and still go thru a rhino. And this bullet "exploded" on the hide of a xxxxx, etc. Cyberspace is replete with absolute statements based on examples of one or magazine ads but all of them agree that youhave got to put the bullet in the right place to work. You know, like those long, hot threads about ".223s for deer and .243s for elk". Just about every post sez you gotta put the bullet in the right place.
If you need to burn the hide off of the bullet you're shooting, you are gonna need a premium, bonded bullet or one of the monometal ones. But, if not, pick whatever heavy for calibre hunting bullet is the most accurate in your rifle and it will work fine...... If you put it in the right place.
I killed my first elk with a 200gr Hot Core bullet from a 30-06 and later I killed a cow with a 150gr CoreLokt from a .280. They both worked fine. Had I been using a 150gr from a 300WM or a 120gr from a 7MAG, I don't think those would be the right bullets for the velocities you would get.

To the OP, I would say depends a lot on the caliber you are choosing. If you want one bullet for deer & elk you need a balanced bullet. It also depends if you worship at the alter of weight retention.

For Magnums:

If you are not a worshipper, the good old Nosler Partition is king. It will blow the front core for maximum damage and penetrate deep.

If you are a worshipper, Swift A-Frame and Barnes TSX are a good call. All things being equal, the A-Frame will open a little wider but the TSX will penetrate a little deeper.

For Non Magnums

There is nothing wrong with Hot Cors and Interlocks that are heavy for caliber (you have to be a non worshipper for this option, if worshipper, see magnum section).

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
250 grain, 35 Caliber,RN., Interlock, infront of a fully loaded 35 Wehlen. No other combo can kill an Elk any deader. roger

Unfortunately, that bullet won't feed out of my VZ-24 Whelen. But the 200 grain spire points do, and might get used on Monday.

I don't know anything about Elk, but for deer, Hornady bullets are my first choice, but I have never tried a "bad" deer bullet.

For Deer sized game, any of the bullets sold today that shoot well in your rifle will do. Larger than Deer, my preferences are North Forks well above all others, then Nosler Partitions, Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frames, the later three all very close, let the rifle tell you what it likes. Good shooting.

quote:

If you are a worshipper, Swift A-Frame and Barnes TSX are a good call. All things being equal, the A-Frame will open a little wider but the TSX will penetrate a little deeper.

So true and I fall into this category but not always. as one mentioned the game, rifle and bullet play hand in hand.

I am building another grizz gun and have loaded a dummy to check how it feeds in this lil' Higgins 50 action. The 400 grn .458 Swift A Frame feeds wonderfully so it will be the bullet for my intended purpose..no plastic tip for me. Love the North Forks but at what a price tag! But again I would not be surprised at all if and when I buy them just for this rifle. These 2 bullets do such a good job of holding together on bone and punching thru that it is hard to look away for intended purpose.

yep plastic tip is good in my thinking for downrange but in shooting range really not necessary.

Well, I like some of the old standard bullets pretty well myself. Didn't mean to indicate that I am trying to avoid bench time, or first hand results. I have probably killed more game with Remington CoreLokts than anything, closely followed by Speer Grand Slams. Back when I was younger, in my mid 20s I was one who wanted to be a bit different and shoot the Speer GS vs the Nosler Partitions that some of my buddies were shooting. Everything that I pointed my trusty 270 at died with 1 shot. No complaints at all.

With the popularity of the Swift A Frame, and the tipped bullets, we have been granted fodder for this type of discussion. I would agree that most any hunting bullet you can buy, tipped or non tipped will adequately kill most North American game. Always interested in hearing opinions, and stories of likes and dislikes for particular hunting bullets though.

I have loaded up some Bergers for my 308 and 300 WSM, and will soon load some for my 280 AI along with some 140 grn Swift A Frames. I will most certainly load Swift A Frames for my 338-06 AI.

Like most others, I do like the Nosler Accubonds, and have had good success with the Hornady Interbonds although my 300 WSM did not like them or any other 150 grn bullet. It's a Kimber Montana, and it is proving to really like the 180 grainers.

I guess if I had to pick one, it would be the Swift A Frame. If I were unable to get them to shoot in a particular gun, I would probably go for the Accubond, or the Berger.

I agree that shot prep, and placement are essential for success, and I subscribe to the heavy for caliber bullet choice.

I'm a firm believer in head shots for the freezer if at all possible (no tracking). We should all eat more venison.

Hope everyones having a good season so far.

I also vote for some of the old standbyes in standard cartridges (2900 fps and under). I'm aweful partial to the Hornady 165, 180 and 190 gr InterLocs for antelope, deer, elk and bear in the .308W and '06. I've also used a lot of Speer, Siearra, Winchester and Remingtons in numerous standard cartridges. They work fine because I and those i hunt with who use them put the bullets in the right place. Haven't felt the need for a "better" bullet.

Now if I was hunting with a magnum (never felt the "need" for that except I do like my M70 .375 H&H) rifle cartridge that would push a 180 gr bullet over 3000 fps I would opt for a bonded bullet. BTW; The .375 Hornady 270 SP will do the job on anything on this continant and most everything in Africa.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
I also vote for some of the old standbyes in standard cartridges (2900 fps and under). I'm aweful partial to the Hornady 165, 180 and 190 gr InterLocs for antelope, deer, elk and bear in the .308W and '06. I've also used a lot of Speer, Siearra, Winchester and Remingtons in numerous standard cartridges. They work fine because I and those i hunt with who use them put the bullets in the right place. Haven't felt the need for a "better" bullet.

Now if I was hunting with a magnum (never felt the "need" for that except I do like my M70 .375 H&H) rifle cartridge that would push a 180 gr bullet over 3000 fps I would opt for a bonded bullet. BTW; The .375 Hornady 270 SP will do the job on anything on this continant and most everything in Africa.

Larry Gibson

AMEN.

The old standard Hornady Interlock has always been one of my favorite bullets. I've never been let down by them.

I have always had great luck with the Hornady's and use them in any rifle I have that will shoot them well. If they don't shoot 'as in my Kimbers', then I use a TSX.

I have had nothing but failures with the Nosler partition, and refuse to use them again. Even on a small deer.

Dwight, please describe some of your failures with NPs.

quote:

I have had nothing but failures with the Nosler partition, and refuse to use them again. Even on a small deer.

Would love to hear all about the "failures" and see pictures of those bullets...

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

I have had nothing but failures with the Nosler partition, and refuse to use them again. Even on a small deer.

Would love to hear all about the "failures" and see pictures of those bullets...

Me too.

quote:

I have had nothing but failures with the Nosler partition, and refuse to use them again. Even on a small deer.

I am curious how "they failed"? surely you jest! I have found only a few retrieved that were perfectly mushroomed or with copper petals if you will and the core...but never have I experienced them to fail.

Please post some pics of the Partitions that were retrieved. Thanks

What is a tipped bullet? Hollow point? Lead tip?

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
What is a tipped bullet? Hollow point? Lead tip?

Jim

Just referring to polymer tipped bullets. Barnes Tipped Triple Shocks and MRX, Nosler Accubonds and Ballistic Tips, Hornady Interbonds and SST's etc.

Does Remington's old bronze point (tip) count?

Tee hee all of this high tech reseach with their tipped bullets. They've re-invented the old bronze point.

The bench mark for not tipped has to be the Nosler Partition but the old spear Grand Slam has workd very will in the past for me even though it is not the most aerodynamic it deserves an honorable mention for big game.

Barnes is the best second choice bullet but it all depends upon the selected quarry. I might prefer a lighter barnes over a heavier partition on smaller dear.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Dwight, please describe some of your failures with NPs.

Must have failed to retain 100% of it's weight when pulled from a dead animal.

I'll take a Hornady interlock every day of the week.

They have been very accurate for me, and have been soft enough, while still holding together and giving deep penetration.

I load 180grn interlock in my 300wm loaded to 2950+fps, and the 117grn interlock in my 257Roberts to 2750fps +/-.

I started changing bullets in my 300wm when I wasn't happy with bullet performance, and quit looking after using the Hornady. It's been my go to bullet for 10+yrs. The only thing I would replace the 180grn interlock with, would be the 190grn interlock!

For an exposed lead tip bullet, they have been super accurate.

For once I agree with Brad, I'd like to see the pictures as well.

For me it's always been the Nosler Partition. The 180 Partition in a 30-06 @ 2850fps, does the number on elk. Eight have been shot with that load, they have all been one shot kills, and they all have been pass thrus, even at a little more than 200 yards. I find the inter locks and Hot Core's to be a bit frangible on elk. That said, the all killed the elk, just didin't stay together as well as a partition.

I like partitions in, 30,35, and 37 cal's for larger game. BTW, I don't believe most animals are lost because the bullet didn't kill the critter, it's always the shooter and shot placement, IMO!

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:

I have had nothing but failures with the Nosler partition, and refuse to use them again. Even on a small deer.

I'm with the other guys here too. Inquirning minds would like to see photos and or hear the story behind so many failures.

For me, the top of the line bullet is the NorthFork followed closely by the Partition. One reason for this is simply because I find the NorthFork slightly more accurate and it doesn't seem to lose quite as much weight as a Partition. Which, by the way, is designed to lose about 15% or so, as I understand it.
Just what I use. Bullet cost means squat to me, it's performance & accuracy that counts.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by DWright:

I have had nothing but failures with the Nosler partition, and refuse to use them again. Even on a small deer.

I shot my first elk this fall with a 225 partition from a .35 Whelen.....and as a matter of fact it's the first anything I ever shot with a partition.....normally I use A-Frames or Northforks or interlocks or SSTs.....

This I can attest to..... It did exactly what is was supposed to do. The exit wound was obvious and there was no point in looking for the bullet....it had passed through.

I used the partition only because of it's good reputation and it happened to shoot so very well in my rifle.....that's hard to neat!

I shot a very small california Blacktail that was quartering toward me at just about 20 yards with a 180 gr. Partition from a .30-06. I hit the point of the shoulder. The forked horn just stood there and looked at me. After a few seconds, my hunting partner couldn't take it anymore and shot it in the head with his .270.
The first thing I did was run up and open the shoulder to see what happened.
The bullet had slid along the outside of the shoulder blade, washing off the point, going just about 8" and stopped. The wound would have healed over I'm sure! Never even broke the shoulder bone. I was not happy.

I shot a Oregon Blacktail at about 75 yards behind the shoulders with a 95 gr. partition from my 6mm Rem. No responce, nothin! I shot twice more. Nothin! The deer got bored and trooted off into the brush. My partner and I tracked it aways, and then split up. He went the long way around the wooded area where it went in, and I walked directly toward where we last saw it. When i did see it, it was laying down like a dog with it's head up. It jumped up and ran out the back side of the wooded area into the open. My partner was on the other side, and stopped it with his rifle.
The partitions hit about 3" from each other, but just penciled thru making 6mm dia. holes. No expansion at all. With this type of performance, why would I want to keep using them?
I got tired of others shooting my game!
Switched to Hornady's, and now everything I hit drops.

Any questions?

Three shots thru the chest!!! Wow! Your Blacktails must be some tougher than our Eastern Whitetails.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Three shots thru the chest!!! Wow! Your Blacktails must be some tougher than our Eastern Whitetails.

Well evidently game has to be just tough and soft enough for them to work.
Not trying to stir the pot, but simply reporting my results.
Sorry if there are those that don't want to believe them.
That's why I hesitate to do so. But fact's are fact's. I have had a talk with one of the employees (salesman) from Nosler here in Bend. He said he has heard similar stories, and makes no excusses about it. I know most everyone I talk to has had great luck with the partition, but I have not. Just the facts.

For me the best Non-tipped bullet is the TSX bullet

DWright ----- Was the 30-06 cartridge you shot at the Blacktail factory or reloaded. Good shooting.