6.5-06 or 280 Ackley??

28 January 2009, 00:59

Thomas Jones

I am curious why you would A-I the 280 , but not the 6.5,06.
In my opinion the two are so close that the difference in killing power wold be quite small.
But ,I think i would go with the 280 . beacuse of the excelent 160 grain bullets availabel.
I think in a remington , I might forgo the AI. Can be a bit of a challange to get them to feed, and the gain if you load the 280 up to full power is not much.
A standard 280 can put the 160 grain bullets out at 2900 or close to it, and You will not get much of a boost with the AI,
But The AI-thing is kind of fun to do.
I Built mine (.257)on mauser action , tohelp reduce the likly hood of feeding issues.
I works great so far.
...tj3006

28 January 2009, 01:57

olarmy

For sheep, goat, deer, etc. I'd go with the 6.5. 120-130gr bullets should be great. If elk were in the mix, I'd lean toward the 7MM.

28 January 2009, 02:51

airgun1

The 280 Ack Imp is a racehorse. I have built at least one for a friend and my buddy built a bunch of them and did extensive testing with a gun writer a few years ago. There are a lots of good 7mm projectiles out there as well.

28 January 2009, 04:35

Code4

If you ever plan to hunt overseas, there is often a .270 minimum to hunt some species, so go the .280.

28 January 2009, 06:05

Stonecreek

What's wrong with your gun just the way it is?

28 January 2009, 06:18

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by olarmy:
For sheep, goat, deer, etc. I'd go with the 6.5. 120-130gr bullets should be great. If elk were in the mix, I'd lean toward the 7MM.

Besides....the 6.5-06 is a snap to reload!

28 January 2009, 07:56

Maxx

vapo- that is my thought too, just neck up or down, and go shoot...

28 January 2009, 16:33

Dr. Lou

I like the 6.5-06 and 280 equally, but I am not a fan of improved cartridges. So to answer your question, I would go with the 6.5-06. Lou

28 January 2009, 17:05

TC1

No AI's for me so I guess the 6.5-06 would be it. I've honestly never understood it's appeal though. But, I've never owned one either.

Terry

28 January 2009, 19:02

ramrod340

I will be the first to admit to owning several AIs adding in my full wildcats I own more AIs & wildcats than STD. First thing I will tell someone that wants to go with an AI don't bother. Years ago I believed all the hype then did A LOT of testing various AIs and Gibbs type wildcats in the same barrel loaded to the same pressures as best my equip and measuring could get me. What I found time and again in an 06 based case 1% velocity for 4% capacity gain. 308 based cases were less and 7x57 based a little more.

Many of the huge gains claimed for the 257Rob and 7x57 were compared to low pressure factory loads. Take the various parent cases and load them to 65,000 like a 270 and the majority of the claimed AI velocity gain disappears.

Can an 280AI loaded to max pressure allow you to get real close to the factory 7rem. Sure. But so would a normal 280 case loaded to the same pressure. But load the 7rem to a higher pressure than std 61,000 it will pull back ahead. I'm sure many have seen big gains. Compared to??? Other published data? Factory ammo? Drastically different pressure? Heck I've had two twin rifles yield close to 200fps difference with the same load. To me a comparison in the same barrel packs much more weight.

As I've said before. Go std if you want magnum velocity get a magnum. If you want an AI by all means go for it. Just have real expectations. If you really want to go for a wildcat and say you are pushing an 06 case as far as you can them look to a Gibbs, Hawk, Howell. They will give you 1.5-2 times more capacity gain than an AI.

As to the bonus of firing std in an AI chamber in a pinch. I've hunted for 30 plus years and it has never been a need of mine.

28 January 2009, 19:33

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by ramrod340:
I will be the first to admit to owning several AIs adding in my full wildcats I own more AIs & wildcats than STD. First thing I will tell someone that wants to go with an AI don't bother. Years ago I believed all the hype then did A LOT of testing various AIs and Gibbs type wildcats in the same barrel loaded to the same pressures as best my equip and measuring could get me. What I found time and again in an 06 based case 1% velocity for 4% capacity gain. 308 based cases were less and 7x57 based a little more.

Many of the huge gains claimed for the 257Rob and 7x57 were compared to low pressure factory loads. Take the various parent cases and load them to 65,000 like a 270 and the majority of the claimed AI velocity gain disappears.

Can an 280AI loaded to max pressure allow you to get real close to the factory 7rem. Sure. But so would a normal 280 case loaded to the same pressure. But load the 7rem to a higher pressure than std 61,000 it will pull back ahead. I'm sure many have seen big gains. Compared to??? Other published data? Factory ammo? Drastically different pressure? Heck I've had two twin rifles yield close to 200fps difference with the same load. Two me a comparison in the same barrel packs much more weight.

As I've said before. Go std if you want magnum velocity get a magnum. If you want an AI by all means go for it. Just have real expectations. If you really want to go for a wildcat and say you are pushing an 06 case as far as you can them look to a Gibbs, Hawk, Howell. They will give you 1.5-2 times more capacity gain than an AI.

As to the bonus of firing std in an AI chamber in a pinch. I've hunted for 30 plus years and it has never been a need of mine.

great post.....another nail in the "AI" coffin.....

and the so-called "improved case life" is baloney as well....any well chambered (to provide minimum headspace of for example .002") and subsequently neck sized only will yield the same result. It has nothing to do with the "so called" 40 degree shoulder!

28 January 2009, 21:30

larrys

I have to admit, if I had to do it over again, my 6.5-06AI would be a simple 6.5-06. I load it for accuracy so the extra trouble isn't worth it. It shoots .5" usually at 3000fps, so I don't need the extra effort of fireforming. Of course, then again I have a 264WM as well.

29 January 2009, 02:40

ned

What velocities are y'all getting out of your 6.5_06? The reason I ask is that I have two 6.5X55 Swedes built on Rem 700 actions. With out pushing things I can get 2800 fps with a 140grn , 2890 with a 130 grain. I would like to do something in else in 6.5 and have looked at the 6.5_06 but looking at the online Hodgdon Data the increase in speed just doesn't seem too impressive. Am I missing something?

29 January 2009, 03:30

ramrod340

quote:
With out pushing things I can get 2800 fps with a 140grn

Based on my testing 3000 with a 140 in a 24" should be doable. I don't know why Hodgdon has the oal at 3.2" seems short to me. Seating it out to 3.34 in Loadtech adds about 90fps. Some of the manuals also stop at 60,000 like the parent 25-06.

29 January 2009, 04:21

Yale

Dear Max:

Why don't you do both.

I'm building another 7x57 Ackley and a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, both on 1898 Mauser actions.

I built a 6.5-06 on a 1908 Brazilian with a Pac-nor barrel years ago, and it shot great, but I didn't get to kill anything with it before I tore it apart to make a 7x57 AI.

By the way, after I bought an Oehler 35 chronograph 6-7 years ago, I got the real dope on load development, etc. I wouldn't load without it.

Again, why not try both out, and get a chronograph to help you make a decision. This is all fun anyway.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

01 February 2009, 00:58

1894mk2

I agree with Stonecreek. Get a good recoil pad and load 165gr Ballistic Tips under RL22. I doubt anything suggested is going to surpass that by anything worthwhile.

Dollars per inch trajectory gained at 300yards with the same zero would be an interesting calculation! Around the $750 mark?

04 February 2009, 09:34

Paul from nz

280 ackley and load it up with 162Amaxs.

If I got brass again id get lapua 30-06 brass and size it down insted of nosler 280ai brass

06 February 2009, 03:45

fredj338

You'll probably get better bbl. life ouit of the 280AI & it's no slouch w/ a 140grNAB @ 3100fps+.

06 February 2009, 04:18

ted thorn

You want a realy fast/light sheep rifle?

Buy a Kimber Montana in .270 WSM.

06 February 2009, 06:00

Buliwyf

6.5-06 with 140's. The greatest factory chambering that never was.

06 February 2009, 09:08

Juggernaut76

quote:
6.5-06 or 280 Ackley??

Do you seriously think anything you shoot with it is going to notice the difference?

06 February 2009, 23:44

Jerry Eden

I have to admit, I have never been a 7mm fan. Don't know why, just never turned me on I guess.

I did build a 6.5-06 on an A-3 Remington a few years ago, and have been very satisfied with it's performance. Very accurate, great bullet choices, excellent cartridge.

Jerry

07 February 2009, 01:01

JD338

I have a 280 AI, 24" Hart barrel. I get 3019 fps with a 160 gr AB.

JD338

07 February 2009, 01:55

Idaho Sharpshooter

why not a 6.5x284 or a 284? There is that tremendous benefit of a short action, and that 3/8" shorter bolt throw could save your life someday. At least according to all of the BS promoting the new short/fat cartridges.

Rich
Buff Killer

07 February 2009, 02:18

fredj338

quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
why not a 6.5x284 or a 284? There is that tremendous benefit of a short action, and that 3/8" shorter bolt throw could save your life someday. At least according to all of the BS promoting the new short/fat cartridges.

Rich
Buff Killer

Except a true SA doesn't rake advantage of the long 140gr 6.5s or 160gr 7mm. Put up in a std 06 length action, you can load the bullets out where you get the most out of them.