So which caliber do you think is more popular, the 325 WSM or the 338 Federal? The answer is based on both new rifle sales and sales of dies and loaded ammo.

Just curious about that.....

325 WSM.
It has a purpose, outside of a semi-auto, the .338 Federal does not.

There is a .325 WSM residing in my house.....and I've never seen a .338 feeble in my life!

Based on that scant evidence I'd say .325!

There is a Kimber Montana in .325 at the shop that has been calling my name. Just can't cough up the funds.

In 10 years the question will be where do you find ammo for the 325 and 338 federal.The good old 338 WM will still be around and kicking!!1

I can't think of a sigle person that I know with either.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I can't think of a sigle person that I know with either.

except me?

Damn Skippy, I just looked in my locker and I don't have either one. So, I guess, their popularity is about even with me.
IMO, they are the answer to questions that haven't been asked.

I know of one 325, no 338 Federals.

My friends aren't into the new calibers. The guy with the 325 inherited a 243 WSSM. I know of one 300 SAUM, one 300 RUM, and one 375 RUM.

My newest cartridge in a 260.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I can't think of a sigle person that I know with either.

except me?

O.K. you got me....sorry vapo....that makes one. I have a .270 WSM I do think it is here to stay.

Doing a quick check in Remington, Kimber, Winchester, and Marlin indicate a whole lot more rifles in 325 WSM than 338 Federal.

So that answers the rifle question....

My friend has been building 338-08 rifles for years on yugo mausers. Guys around here (PA) use them for bear. The 338 Federal is identical to his version. That said, the 338 Fed doesn't interest me at all.

I have two 375 H&H and a 416 Rem as well as numerous 30-06's all in pre 64 Win 70's.

The only one of all of the new whiz-bang cartridges has not impressed me with the exception of the 325 WSM.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

I have a .270 WSM I do think it is here to stay.

Now there's a cartridge that doesn't make a bit of sense.

The 7mm WSM is much more versitile & should have been brought out 1st. That would have negated the (perceived) need for the 270 WSM.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I can't think of a sigle person that I know with either.

except me?

Had no idea you had a 338Fed. Did you buy it from Bawana?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
I can't think of a sigle person that I know with either.

except me?

Had no idea you had a 338Fed. Did you buy it from Bawana?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
There is a .325 WSM residing in my house.....and I've never seen a .338 feeble in my life!

Based on that scant evidence I'd say .325!

I know that you were looking for a long range Elk rig, is the .325 what you decided on?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...and I've never seen a .338 feeble in my life!

Here is what one looks like....

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
In 10 years the question will be where do you find ammo for the 325 and 338 federal.The good old 338 WM will still be around and kicking!!1

You buy 308 brass and 338 bullets and have some fun. I'm pretty sure they will be making both in 10 years.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...and I've never seen a .338 feeble in my life!

Here is what one looks like....

Thanks Scott.....actually he's a pretty good sport as we have been having some fun bashing his .338 Federal for some time now......and yes....I'm on record as saying it's a fairly good cartridge.....certainly elk worthy to 300 yards!!!!

But there's a lot of good rounds that just don't seem to make it.....two of my favorites for example....the 6mm Remington and the 280 Remington

Uh Oh, does that mean I have to sell my .280?

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Uh Oh, does that mean I have to sell my .280?

I guess I'll have to sell my 7mm-08 now, I've only got two elk so far.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Uh Oh, does that mean I have to sell my .280?

I guess I'll have to sell my 7mm-08 now, I've only got two elk so far.

That's funny; after finding out what the ol' 8X57IS will do when reloaded to 60K, I sold both my 280 & my 7mm-08.

Both of them being M700s helped motivate the sale too.

quote:

That's funny; after finding out what the ol' 8X57IS will do when reloaded to 60K,

Suprising what happens when you load an old cartridge to modern pressures....but it's always been about the pressure.

For 2007, the .325 was #39 and the .338 Fed was #50 on the RCBS die list - not very useful. I thought I had a more current list but I cannot find it. I'll ask them again.



.

If I were betting, I would bet 338fed. The 325wm is just such a bastard size & useful for elk size game, but those wanting a bit more gunthan their 308, yeah, I could see the 338fed. I love my 338-06 for hunting anything that walks NA & most of Africa.

One thing is, if those of us with .338-06's get really bored, we can light load them, and call them 338 Federals!

DM

+1

Kimber Select 8400 in 325WSM nice compact magnum

Brad

I and a couple of my friends all own and shoot the .325 WSM. Great caliber that will easily kill a majority of anything on the planet, useful for all but the very, very biggest and nastiest stuff. Mine's been very effective both here in North America and in Africa, where I have shot plenty of game with both softs and solids loaded for me by John LaSala of Safari Arms. It's a popular caliber in many gun manufacturer's listings and will be for a long time, IMHO.

I too own a .325 WSM Kimber Montana. The two .338 Win Mags I own are just getting too damn heavy to carry. I have a .308 and see no need for a .338 Federal.

quote:

I have a .308 and see no need for a .338 Federal.

Since when does "need" have anything to do with buying a rifle?

The most recent Top 50 Dies Chart from RCBS (just got it today) is for 2008. It shows the .338 Federal in #38 and the .325 WSM is #39. So the .338 Federal moved up 11 places and the .325 WSM stayed the same from 2007 to 2008.


.

quote:

The two .338 Win Mags I own are just getting too damn heavy to carry.

Nothing that 10 minutes a day on a StairMaster wouldn't fix.


.

some of the fittest professional folk in the world[,sporting, military,etc] despite their high level fitness, still prefer not to carry any more weight than necessary, they remain strong proponents of lighter equipment.

Totally subjective,

but at my house, my lease, and some of the deer and hogs I kill, it's definitely the 325 WSM.

Being a rifle looney, one of my sayings is, "I'm just one rifle away from being happy". With that in mind, taken with the fact that I had a 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308, and 358 win, when the 338 Federal was introduced, I hurried on down to my favorite gun shop and picked out a brand spankin' new Sako 85 stainless synthetic. After about 100 different 3 shot groups and doing all the tricks I knew of, I gave the second one back. Couldn't get the first one or the second one to group, or come within a 100 fps of published loads. Plus to get over, say 2400 fps, loads had to be compressed. IIRC, recoil was pretty stiff for what ya' got.

But the 325 WSM fits me like a glove.

180 gr. Nosler ballistic tip over 62 grains of W 760 is an 89% load density and +/- 2,775 fps. Fast enough to shoot flat,and knock the piss out of whatever you point it at, yet slow enough that you don't have bloodshot meat for 10" around the entry wound.

My first 325 WSM was a Kimber Montana. Neat rifle. Light, handy, impervious to the elements, and a shooter.




It certainly made an impression on several deer and hogs I/it came in contact with







I liked it enough, that when Nosler offered their NRA discount last year, I couldn't resist.


Nosler Model 48, Custom Sporter, 325 WSM

Hadn't wrung it out yet, but first few groups indicates it's a keeper.

What's the old bromide, "Opinions are like noses, everyone has one and most of them smell" (nice version.)
Well, here is two thumbs up/votes for the 325 WSM

Best
GWB

GW,

Those Nosler Custom Sporters are very nice. I wish I had bought a bigger safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:

But the 325 WSM fits me like a glove.

180 gr. Nosler ballistic tip over 62 grains of W 760 is an 89% load density and +/- 2,775 fps. Fast enough to shoot flat,and knock the piss out of whatever you point it at, yet slow enough that you don't have bloodshot meat for 10" around the entry wound.

Why would you need a 325 WSM to get 8X57IS performance? My 8X57IS W/a 23 1/8 barrel will easily exceed those 180gr BT Mvs W/about 8grs less powder & do it W/O exceeding 60,000psi.

NOTE: Load data listed on the target is incorrect, the powder charge was 54.5gr Vv N550.



Another thing that puzzles me:

Why does everone seem to fear "compressed loads"?

I always strive to find a compressed load that gives good Mv W/O elevating pressure.

I find that compressed loads offer more consistant performance.

WJ

Back at ya'...........

Let me preface my remarks with the bromide "opinions are like noses, everyone has one and most of them smell" (nice version).

Let's see, you ask........
"Why would you need a 325 WSM to get 8X57IS performance? My 8X57IS W/a 23 1/8 barrel will easily exceed those 180gr BT Mvs W/about 8grs less powder & do it W/O exceeding 60,000psi."

A few thoughts,

With a sobriquet being "Wildcat Junkie" there is probably no point in discussing "need" vs. want or desire. So I won't go there.

The title of the thread is "Which is more popular: 325WM or the 338 Federal?" Some have responded with empirical data, some with opinions. Since I have owned, developed loads for, shot, and even taken game with both, I decided I would offer a comment. I certainly know which one is more popular with me.

As to cartridge efficiency, that is way down on the list as to why I buy a rifle. Once again want trumps need.

Now as to the 8 x 57 IS specifically, a couple more thoughts.

I typically load Nosler bullets based on data from the Nosler manual. Load data from Nosler's 6th edition shows a max velocity of 2,669 fps using a 101% load density of 49 Grains of Varget. It show a velocity of 2,667 fps using a 96% load density of 48.5 gr. of RL 15. Using IMR 4350 with a 105% load density (compressed load) of 52 grains, velocity is shown to be 2,545 fps. These velocities are out of a 24 inch test barrel.

Using nosler's lightest load of W760 of 62 grains (what I'm loading for the Nosler Sporter, book velocity is shown at 2,884 fps. I chrono'd my loads out of the Nosler sporter at 2,750- 2,775 fps.

I don't shoot VhitaVuori powder, so I don't know the characteristic of the particular powder you are loading, but the N140 is showing a max load of 46 grains. If you are loading 54 grains in this case, you might definitely have a compressed load.
Also, if you're getting a chrono'd velocity of over 2,800 fps with a 180 gr. bullet out of a 23" barrel in an 8 x57, you might want to check your pressures, you might be up there!

You also state

"Another thing that puzzles me:
Why does everone seem to fear "compressed loads"?
I always strive to find a compressed load that gives good Mv W/O elevating pressure.
I find that compressed loads offer more consistent performance."

I have a healthy respect for reloading and the danger that can arise therefrom. I start low and work up. I trickle all charges. Many of my loads will have less than a 20 fps deviation. Not that it matters that much in a hunting load at 100 yds. However I have found that many times I will do damage to the bullet, or have variations in the overall length when a load is highly compressed. Consequently, for my money, I like a load from 89 to 96% density.

Finally, in regards to velocity. I took game with a 250 Savage, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, and 308, among others this last season. I loaded all mildly. The magnums stayed home in the safe. I see no reason to try to turn a 250 savage or even a 257 bob into a 257 Weatherby. I enjoy them for what they are.

I think if I owened a beautiful and functional work of art such as you feature in your reply above, I would test three or four of the powders listed in the Nosler manual to develop a velocity of +/- 2,500 fps and choose which ever one I liked the best. But as stated at the beginning of the post. "opinions vary"

Best
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
WJ

Now as to the 8 x 57 IS specifically, a couple more thoughts.

I typically load Nosler bullets based on data from the Nosler manual. Load data from Nosler's 6th edition shows a max velocity of 2,669 fps using a 101% load density of 49 Grains of Varget. It show a velocity of 2,667 fps using a 96% load density of 48.5 gr. of RL 15. Using IMR 4350 with a 105% load density (compressed load) of 52 grains, velocity is shown to be 2,545 fps. These velocities are out of a 24 inch test barrel.

Using nosler's lightest load of W760 of 62 grains (what I'm loading for the Nosler Sporter, book velocity is shown at 2,884 fps. I chrono'd my loads out of the Nosler sporter at 2,750- 2,775 fps.

I don't shoot VhitaVuori powder, so I don't know the characteristic of the particular powder you are loading, but the N140 is showing a max load of 46 grains. If you are loading 54 grains in this case, you might definitely have a compressed load.
Also, if you're getting a chrono'd velocity of over 2,800 fps with a 180 gr. bullet out of a 23" barrel in an 8 x57, you might want to check your pressures, you might be up there!

You also state

"Another thing that puzzles me:
Why does everone seem to fear "compressed loads"?
I always strive to find a compressed load that gives good Mv W/O elevating pressure.
I find that compressed loads offer more consistent performance."

I have a healthy respect for reloading and the danger that can arise therefrom. I start low and work up. I trickle all charges. Many of my loads will have less than a 20 fps deviation. Not that it matters that much in a hunting load at 100 yds. However I have found that many times I will do damage to the bullet, or have variations in the overall length when a load is highly compressed. Consequently, for my money, I like a load from 89 to 96% density.


I think if I owened a beautiful and functional work of art such as you feature in your reply above, I would test three or four of the powders listed in the Nosler manual to develop a velocity of +/- 2,500 fps and choose which ever one I liked the best. But as stated at the beginning of the post. "opinions vary"

Best
GWB

Ever wonder how Nosler's manual shows a compressed load of IMR 4350 pushing a 200gr Partition @ 2700fps while the 180gr BT tops out @ less Mv? (although I could never get over 2600fps for a 200gr Partition W/that data)

Fact is Vv N5XX series powders seem to achieve about 100 fps more Mv @ a given pressure than most other powders including Vv N1XX series powders.

The 500 series Vv powders are denser & one can use a slower powder & still get enough volume by weight into a case to offset the slower burn rate. I suspect that a similar type of powder might be used in Hornady's "Light Magnum" loadings. I too "trickle" my powder charges & weigh to the nearest .01gr on a digital scale. I use a drop tube to get consistant case filling density. My MVs are very consistant W/my compressed loads so I would think that would indicate that the pressures are also very consistant.

I use 'Quickload" data. I set the parameters @ 107% maximum load density @ 60,000 psi pressure ceiling for the 8X57IS. I start low & stop when I aproach the Mv that is predicted for 60,000 psi regardless of whether I have reached the maximum load charge weight (I have never exceeded the max charge weight)as long as there are no pressure signs.

My rifle is built on a modern manufacture (circa 1960) Yugoslavian commercial M98 LR LS VZ500 M98 action. (think gussied up M48 Yugo)The barrel is a 98K take off barrel of exceptional bore/chamber smoothness W/a rather short throat. The bore seems to have been lapped & the chamber polished. I suspect that this particular ($45)barrel might have been from some sort of match or sniper rifle.

I feel that the limiting factor is the brass, not the rifle itself so I have no qualms pushing the cases formed from once fired Lake City '06 GI brass to the modest 60K pressure levels.

To be honest, IMO using 180gr bullets in an 8mm bore is limiting potential. A 200gr Partition, even though it starts out about 150fps slower, will generally shoot as flat as the 180gr BT due to the superior BC.

The twist rate of that military barrel also seems to like the 200gr pills even better than the 180s.

Again, load data listed on the target is 10gr higher than the actual load of 53.5gr Vv N550.


As far as the 325 WSM?

I think that the 8mm WSM (let's call it what it really is) as well as the 7mm WSM are the 2 of the best "short" magnum rounds.

Sorry about the smart A$$ post, but if that 325 where mine, I would be feeding it 200gr Partitions @ 2800-2900fps.

WJ,
PM in progress! (I'm slow)
GWB

Guys, this is just a bit off topic but years ago I built a 8mm Rem Mag with a 26 inch Hart barrel. I still have the gun though I haven't pulled it out of the safe in awhile. I have never even seen a .338 Federal and I have only seen the ammo for a .325 WSM. The .325 WSM looks likd a really well designed case but I have always preferred the old 8 Mag. I think mostly because I really preferred the heavier 220 grain Swift bullets. Because the guns are lighter and handier, I would pick a 325 WSM over a .338 Win Mag. in a heart beat. Just my two cents.