Another thing on my list this year is a lightweight, three season bag.

I currently have a Moonstone 3D (synthetic) bag that I have been using for a long time. I'd like to upgrade to a lightweight down bag, rated for -7C or so. Stuffed size is a factor as well.

Any suggestions/opinions on the current crop of bags out there?

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck, I think the best darn lightweight down bag out there is the Western Mountaineering "Versalite Super." Get it with the 2oz's overfill. I've got one and love it.

If you're a "big" guy (as in broad chest, etc. like our Viking friend Kutenay) you might consider the "Alpinlite"... in 2006 it'll be available as a "Super" (ie, full down collar).

Western Mountaineering, Valandre, Integral Designs and, possibly, Montbel and Feathered Friends make the finest down bags followed by Marmot, Moonstone and Sierra Designs... all, of course, in my "humble" opinion... ever notice everyone's opinion on these forums is humble?

Canuck,

Check out the Big Agnes line of bags.....I have a Stormking 0* down(long) bag that weighs in at 3# 5oz. Lots of room to move around in and a pocket for your pad so you never slide off at night...I'm a big guy and have all the room and more that I need...packs to the size of a cantaloupe....I used it 45 nights straight once this year and it was great.

Joe

For a three season "hunting" bag, I currently use an Integral Designs "North Twin" which weighs just under 4 lbs. This is the best synthetic bag I have ever used or seen and it works perfectly in B.C. conditions. It packs down into my hunting packs almost as easily as down and is just "better" for worry-free emergency camping in harsh weather.

My emergency camp has been modified many times as superior equipment became available and lighter weight relative to acceptable function became possible. I am now carrying the "North Twin", an I.D. "Event South Col", an I.D. "Sylwing" and a Big Agnes Insul.AirCore mat backed up by a Ridgerest. This will take me, in my long johns, spare sox and watchcap, down to -10F comfortably and it weighs less than 10 lbs.

Gear of this quality is NOT cheap, but, it will save your ass if you get caught in a blizzard on "The China Wall"; like the one last Sept. 10-11 that hit the E.Kootenays so hard. To buy any I.D. gear, the best dealer is Mountain Magic,in Surrey, B.C., phone 604-535-5182. These guys are real mountain people, from South Africa, very gun positive and they will treat you right.

I share Brad's enthusiasm for Western Mountaineering bags, however, many of theirs are cut too tightly for my taste. But, they make fabulous bags, no question. I have had a Feathered Friends bag since '89 and it kicks ass, but, I haven't seen any of the newer stuff. My partner has a "Snowey Owl" and used it in the north, but, didn't like it, so got a bag like my custom I.D. "Himalayan", probably the single finest bag I have ever used or seen, but, they are about $1100.00, so,.......

The Valandre bags are interesting, I got a phone call from the U.S. dealer a few weeks ago and then an e-mail from Valandre themselves. My impression is that the "Shocking Blue" is a remarkable bag, but, probably a bit too techy for most hunters. The design is going to work best for mountaineering in the "alpine" style and I don't think their collars will be very comfy for restless sleepers. Again, the bags are pricey, they quoted me almost 600. Euros to ship me a S.B. from France to Vancouver, too much for what I would really use it for as I probably won't do a winter assault of the "Eigerwand" anytime soon.

Joe's point about Big Agnes bags is more to the needs of most hunters, IMO, and I am going to buy one of their warmest, largest Primaloft models that accepts the 25" pad for keeping in the next 4x4 I get. I have talked with the B.a. folks, they have come up to Nelson skiing and they are fine people who sell a good product and much cheaper than many others.

If, you can afford it, I would get an I.D. North Twin plus an I.D. Rockies Endurance overfill; these two bags will do it all in B.C. I also like the Exped "Wallcreeper" Primaloft as a light emerg. bag with a bivy and just ordered one from Mount.Mag. this morning. You can get into it with a fractured limb, combine it with a bivy and here I recommend the I.D. Chrysalis model and the combo is light and versatile.

Make sure to buy a bag that is broad enough as you will find that, as you get older, it's harder to tolerate tight sleeping bags. I have given away three bags recently that were o.k. when I was younger as I just hate being too snug in my fartsack. If, you buy the really topend stuff, it costs, but, it lasts a lifetime and is money well spent, IMO.

I have a Wiggys Ultimate Thule rated for
-40....I think it's great, but I also bought
-30 from Cabelas that I let a buddy use this year, thinking I could save some weight sometime down the line--he slept with long johns and I didn't --could be just metabolism--the wiggys is a little heavier than the Cabela's bag--but I want to be warm when needed and you can always unzip the buggers if it's to warm---the wiggys is two bags so I can separate it if needed--also you can always sleep with clothes(as long as they're available) if needed and go with a lighter weight and higher temp rating--chris

Kutenay, Thanks! That is great stuff! I will definitely check out the Integral Designs bags you recommend. As a matter of fact, your post is already printed and filed in my resource materials.

I am not a huge guy but I am on the big side (6'2", 225'ish, 48" chest) and I am a side sleeper. I tend to swap sides a few times a night, so having enough room to rollover is a must. I hate having my arms pinned to my side.

Is the Mountain Magic shop fairly handy to a main thoroughfare? Just curious as my job takes me to Vancouver about once a month and it would be great to stop in and see their stuff first hand.

Cheers
Canuck

Lots of good advice here in regards to down bags. As I get older, my gear is all getting lighter. For the past couple of years I have been using a 20 degree Mountainsmith bag. It weighs just under 2 lbs. Last summer I learned they are no longer making bags, so I went online and picked up a 0 degree bag - for half price. That bag weighs about 2.5 lbs. I have slept in it at an honest 0 and stayed comfortable.

CoBrad I looked over those Mountainsmith UL's... they were pretty darn nice.

MtBrad

Canuck, for the down bag that you described in your initial post, go to Mountain Magic, it's on King George Highway at about 23rd.Ave. in south Surrey, deep in the "Heart of India".....

If, you order an I.D."Sierra", XPD0, with the Endurance shell option and 10 per cent overfill in size BROAD-LONG, you will have the best bag I currently know of for your size/requirements. I own/use a slightly customized XPDII "Himalayan" with the overfill option I prefer in all down bags as I do a Gore-Tex type shell. I have never slept in a bag so comfortable as many bags are too tight for my 48" chest and large shoulders.

Western Mountaineering bags are very good, but, for what you describe, this particular bag is perfect in cut, size, warmth and it is Canadian. This may/may not be important to you, it is very important to me. You can also get a "Renaissance" or "North Twin" Primaloft bag for packing in your hunting pack at all times, with a light pad, tarp and maybe a bivy; this works very well for me.

I'll paddle whitewater in a canoe w/ my gear, so I'll not use down. I've used several different high tech tight fitting bags in the past and I've grown sick of them. It's rare that I have a flat and level place to bed down so I've also grown tired of fighting w/ my bag and pad.

This past year I've been using a synthetic Big Agnes. It gives me a bit more room to wiggle and the pad fits in the bottom sleeve. The change to this system greatly improved my comfort and enjoyment throughout the season. I used a 15degree Encampment to take my 4 year old son out on his first spike camp hunt. The bag was roomy enough for my son to comfortably sleep in the bag w/ me. We slept on the ground under an EXPED Scout Tarp w/ the overnight low being 19degrees. If a 4 year old boy can sleep comfortably w/ this system, I see no reason why an adult would have any complaint.

Gary

Another bag system for people favoring the BA system is Western Mountaineering's Pod Series. Basically a Versa with a pad compartment in the bottom and less down. The weights given include the weight of the pad that comes with the bag at the price quoted. There are two bags available - 32 abd 15 degree models, so the selection is more limited than with WM's other bag lines...Rusty.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Canuck, I think the best darn lightweight down bag out there is the Western Mountaineering "Versalite Super." Get it with the 2oz's overfill. I've got one and love it.

If you're a "big" guy (as in broad chest, etc. like our Viking friend Kutenay) you might consider the "Alpinlite"... in 2006 it'll be available as a "Super" (ie, full down collar).

Western Mountaineering, Valandre, Integral Designs and, possibly, Montbel and Feathered Friends make the finest down bags followed by Marmot, Moonstone and Sierra Designs... all, of course, in my "humble" opinion... ever notice everyone's opinion on these forums is humble?

Brad- When you say get it with the 2oz overfill, do you have to customer order this? I have a 10 year old western mountaineering bag ( i forget the model), and I am in the market for a new one as well,

thanks

I use Taiga bags.

http://www.taigaworks.ca

Maxx, I've gotten overfill on all three WM bags I've had but it must be ordered custom. The good news is turn around on a custom bag is only approx two weeks.

There is a company, "Hermit's Hut" in California that offers WM bags with FREE o/f, if you want it and their retail prices seem pretty good, as well. They appear to stock the Badger, Kodiak, Alpinlite and have the optional DryLoft shells available. In a wet climate, such as B.C., the D/L Badger O/F is as close to a perfect "all-round" bag as one could ever want and should last most guys for decades.

This company has a website if you want to google it.

WOW, choices, choices. Thanks for the info Kutenay. I do live in BC, so thaks for putting me onto the dryloft shell. I checked out the site, but maybe you can answer a few questions,

- I am not that big a guy 5'9", 165, and since this is more of a backpack bag, is the apache sdl not a batter option for me than the badger?( the options are almost the same of the versalite super, except is has the dryloft?)

- with the overfill on the versalite, they claim that this brings the temperature rating down to 0 degress with the 2 oz overfill, yet they do not claim that the overfill on the apache does not change the rating?

thanks for the info

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
Another thing on my list this year is a lightweight, three season bag.

Canuck,

Over the years I have found that the most important area in which NOT to save money is sleeping bag. I recommend 2 brands of bags only:

Mountain Hardwear
Marmot

They can be found at http://www.campmor.com

My Mountain Hardwear bag is rated to -30 degrees F, and I have slept outside in it at -20 degrees F on a sleeping pad on the ground with no tent, no heater, no shelter, and was not chilly at all. My Marmot was rated to -20 when new and for 7 or 8 years it was good to that temp, although now it is only good to zero or so.

There may be better bags out there as well. But bags that cost less are definitely not better.

MAXX, since you live in B.C., I strongly suggest calling John or Scotty at Mountain Magic and getting an I.D. bag. The Apache DL is available at MEC and they WILL special order one with O/F for you, if you prefer a bag made in California to one made in Alberta. Actually, these bags are so close in overall quality that it comes down to slight differences in features that YOU prefer.

Spend some serious time on both websites and think about it carefully before buying. If, you prefer a tight bag, great, I hate tight bags and even the Badger is barely wide enough for my taste. If, you hunt into the late season, I would go with the "Rockies" in an I.D. and a "Puma" in the W.M. as the extra warmth is worth packing the extra weight, IMO.

I find that, once you get cold INSIDE a sleeping bag of ANY type, you are hooped and cannot get warm without external forces, so, I tend to go with a bit warmer bag than many people recommend. You might also look at Kluane bags at http://www.kluane.ab.ca as they have a super "rep" among some very serious coldweather types.

I have 2 Marmot down bags. The last one I bought is a Helium rated to 10F (I'm pretty sure) and weighs slightly over 2 lbs in the stuff sack.
I've heard real good things about ID bags as well. They're a good company to deal with. I'm not familiar with the other Canadian companies mentioned.
Ken

What you want in a sleeping bag or parka for cold temp. is high quality down, baffled just right and a goretex liner.Down is king(warmth for weight).

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
There is a company, "Hermit's Hut" in California that offers WM bags with FREE o/f, if you want it and their retail prices seem pretty good, as well. They appear to stock the Badger, Kodiak, Alpinlite and have the optional DryLoft shells available. In a wet climate, such as B.C., the D/L Badger O/F is as close to a perfect "all-round" bag as one could ever want and should last most guys for decades.

This company has a website if you want to google it.

As a follow up, I did order an Antelope SDL from Hermits Hut, it finally arrived today. I got it with the free 2 oz overfill. The bag looks GREAT!

- One question is compared to my 10 year old bag, the Antelope has much less down fill on the "ground" side of the bag as compared to the sky facing side of the bag, is this normal?

thanks

MAXX: What's normal depends largly on the manufacturer's design theories. Back a ways, almost all down bags had the fill equally devided between the tops and bottoms of sleeping bags.

With the increasing interest in lighter more efficient equipment and the development of better pad systems, the amount of insulation in the bottom of bags has been reduced and even completely eliminated in some designs.

Dead air space is nature's best insulation, and since your body weight compresses most of the air out of your bad's insulation when you lay on it, it contributes very little to the warmth of the bag. Most of the warmth coming from below you comes from your pad system, so be sure to not scrimp there and the thinner bottom will be no problem at all...Rusty.

All
Just purchased a Marmot Hydrogen Bag from
www.e-omc.com.. They have all the top brands and some good prices..Free shipping..Fast..
This bag was rated very high for Weight, Warmth as a 3 season Mountain Bag..
AK

I used a Marmot Helium 15 degree bag for 10 days this last sheep season and was very pleased. I bought the long version, listed for up to 6'6'', and the bag was a great fit for my 6'2" 215lbs. I'm a side sleeper as well and this bag was easy to move around in. Bag weighs just 2lbs and packs down quite small. I planned on buying a Western Mountaineering bag but I had too many Cabelas bucks from work to pass up the Marmot bag. Seems good so far.

quote:

Originally posted by Maxx:



As a follow up, I did order an Antelope SDL from Hermits Hut, it finally arrived today. I got it with the free 2 oz overfill. The bag looks GREAT!

- One question is compared to my 10 year old bag, the Antelope has much less down fill on the "ground" side of the bag as compared to the sky facing side of the bag, is this normal?

thanks

Maxx
I thought on the Antelope the baffles allowed you to shift the down where you wanted it.

If your getting acustom bag made, consider the down ratings.
If your trying to save weight, you can go with a very high loft down (950 loft). It will give you the warmth of heavier lower lofting down bag(heavier cause you need more of it to get the same warmth). Problem is the Higher loft down is not as durable over time,and requires more though in the design of the bag to cater for the more sensitive lofting nature of the down. depends what your priorities are.
Outer layer material can effect the warmth of abag as well. pertex is more breathable than dryloft so it will usually be a less warming bag than say dryloft for the same fill weight. Dryloft will probably add a little extra weight as well.
I would go with a pertex linning to get moisture away from the body as quick as possible, but have a dryloft outer shellwhich is more moisture/wind resistant, which will up the rating of the bag over the same weight fill of a pertex outer shell bag.
another bag to consider is the Mountain Hardwear Coduit SL bags which are seam sealed units with no external stiching, all seam welded instead.If memory serves me correctly they are 800+ loft rating, but have heard they may be a little "wet" cause the outer shell holds too much moisture in the bag on occasions.
I also like the idea of bags that allow u to shift down from the bottom to the top. It sort of helps you to rerate the bag. Any down that you ly on and heavily compresson is almost useless anyway,you may as well have more on top if needed,and a good thermarest on the bottom.