I have been on a number of sheep hunts. I have always used my Barney’s pack. The most recent outfittter recommended that pack and that pack only .

Recently, I have started to have some issues. I am fairly confident that is needs adjusting by someone who knows what they are doing. I do not. I took it too REI. It is clear to me that they are more clueless than me.

I also have a Stone Glacier pack which I do not particularly care for.

I just booked another hunt. This time for stone sheep. This outfitter is totally opposed to the Barney’s pack. He recommends Stone Glacier or Kifaru.

I have one outfitter saying one thing . I have another saying the polar opposite.

What do you experts think? I hate to spend the money for another pack that I might not like.

Kifaru and SG are top shelf packs no doubt

Thanks

I have a Mystery Ranch.

They make very good packs.

The external/internal battle will go on forever. Generally speaking externals handle heavy loads better, are cooler but make tricky maneuvering harder since they carry the load higher and can suddenly shift throwing you off balance.

Internals ride lower and closer to your body improving balance but handle weight a little less well and make you have to lean a bit more forward with a truly heavy load.

Conditions can dictate the type but so can the individual recommending the pack. Bottom line is try both and use what you prefer not what someone else likes.

Unless it's really steep and tricky I like the externals and have done a lot of backpacking & hunting with mine. It's a twenty five plus year old Kelty Super Tioga that's also hauled a lot of meat too. Nice thing about them is you still can get parts when something wears out or to improve it.

I also have a fleet of Gregory and Arcterex packs. I still do some back country skiing in the winter which sometimes includes camping in the snow. For skiing it's internals only because they ride closer to your back. I use a 3000 cubic inch internal for most day hunting in the mountains.

The best advice is try to find a mountain shop close to you with someone who knows what they're talking about.

REI unfortunately has become a granola eater boutique that specializes in selling purple tights and little else. Too bad especially since I used to shop there a long time ago when they only had one store staffed by a bunch of grizzled old mountaineers who needed a way to feed their addiction. It was a pretty cool place back then.

No doubt good advice. However, try finding a mountain shop here in Florida!

True enough!

Well than try a few internals at REI with a load in them (they do still offer to load it up don't they?), adjust it what feels good to you and hope for the best I guess.

I feel for you not being able to get the help you need. Unfortunately expertise in the retail business is largely a thing of the past.

If you think in your own mind that one particular type of pack fits you better than use it. Regardless of what the guide thinks. It's your back not theirs.

I'm lucky here in the PNW I live in a small town right up against the foothills. I spend a lot of time in the mountains. I get antsy being at home too long so I'm thinking this week about going snowshoeing or maybe taking a rifle out for some coyote hunting. After Christmas I need to wear off some flab.

Good luck with your quest.

Sir, you have made me think. I have a lot of travel coming up. Perhaps I can find such a shop on my trips out west. I never thought about that before.

Try an EXO 3500 or 5500. It has an internal titanium skeleton and carries very well. Great packs from great people. Also try Seek Outside.

I run my EXO as a day pack as well and it is comfy and stays out of the way.


http://exomountaingear.com/product-category/packs/

Order one, try it out in your neighborhood with a load, and send it back if you don’t like it.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Sir, you have made me think. I have a lot of travel coming up. Perhaps I can find such a shop on my trips out west. I never thought about that before.

First, call Kifaru. Second, if you are out West, can you go by their shop, they may be able to fit the pack right there. Thirdly, if you are looking at an external frame, consider the Barney's "Bob" frame and bag. Call and talk to Kevin Dana there directly, http://barneyssports.com/packs-bags.html?p=1.

You've got the two packs I have...Barneys and Stone Glacier. I'm a 25 year Barney's guy but used a Stone Glacier for last years sheep hunt and am sold on it. Barneys for moose and the SG for mountain hunts going forward. With whatever pack you have it needs to fit. Going with an outfitter you'll likely not have that 100 lb load, so a pack as tough as Barney's isn't needed. SG will hold up, but so will many others. Only 8 months away...Good luck!

quote:

With whatever pack you have it needs to fit.

When I brought my Mystery Ranch I stopped at the factory in Boseman MT the sales person and I spent about hour trying packs.

When I picked the one I wanted a asked about buying a factory second. Saved around hundred and fifty dollars.

The damage was so slight the sales person had to point it out to me a slightly missed sew seam. The seconds still come with full warrantee.

Then we spent another hour adding weight and fitting it.

Great service and a very good pack.

Thanks gentlemen.

I am flying through Denver in a couple of weeks. I understand Kifaru is based there. I might be worth a visit.

I am training for Marco Polo now. Stone sheep is next year. I have time.

There should be mountain shops in Denver. You might stop in a couple also.

Any chance of you getting through Bozeman? You could visit Mystery ranch and Stone Glacier. It is all about the fit.

It is al about fit. Make sure that whatever pack you buy YOU can adjust it in the field. Yeah, loading the pack in the store helps as does having a knowledgeable person help you with the INITIAL adjustments. Hours up a trail in BF nowhere or after a couple of days humping around the mountains you may find that the "perfect fit" in the store is not quite cutting it anymore.

I have a Mystery Ranch Big Horn, of course they don't make it anymore...Anyway, I can add extra storage to the bag for week long trips or slim it down for day hikes. I prefer internal frames, I had a external frame meat hauler and got rid of it, didn't really notice an appreciable difference overall with the Big Horn when properly loaded.

Strongly suggest you take your new pack on a break in trip around home. Load it up with all the stuff you plan to take, including rifle. Hump up a few hills, see if anything starts to "rub you the wrong way".

Last thing: If you do not have a set of good hiking poles, get some. In the mountains they are not just nice to have, they can prevent serious injury or death.

What Paul said about the poles. And knowing how to adjust them for proper use. I recently read that one pole increased overall efficiency by almost 20% and with two nearly 30%.

Cougarz gave you some good advice.

I have an old REI external frame and a Kifaru EMR II. They excel at different things. No matter what anyone tells you, an internal will not handle the heavy loads as well as an external. With that being said, I prefer to hunt out of an internal because it is easier and quieter to move through brush without getting caught up on things. On elk hunts now I just bring my mules, so I no longer have to worry about the really heavy loads.

Heavy loads.

I see and hear people talk about how certain styles of packs are better for heavy loads. My questions are what constitutes heavy? And how safe are heavy loads from several aspects?

I refer to this article. There are more and admittedly better articles but this is just one of many relating to stress injuries due to heavy packs.
https://www.npr.org/2011/04/10...y-gear-packs-on-pain

Now if the military considers 50 pounds a reasonable daily limit for a 20 something soldier whose job is to work out every day what about a 40 or 50 or even 60 something hunter that goes to the gym a couple of times a week?

Yes, I have humped out several elk quarters in one day from rough, steep country and paid a serious price in pain for a few days afterwards. Next month I turn 63. To say the least humping a pack loaded to 75 pounds plus up or especially down a steep mountainside is off my " do list ".

Another thought: Heavy packs in very steep, rugged terrain are VERY dangerous. The nephew of one of my best friends is a retired 30 something special ops soldier. He's broken a leg twice in 3 years packing elk quarters out of a very steep canyon in central Montana. Granted he refused to use hiking poles the first time, the second time they were strapped to the load and well "You can't fix stupid" but you can see where I'm going here. The guy is a hell of lot younger and in better shape that many folks on AR and has some serious experience humping heavy loads. I'm sure there are a few orthopedists on AR that could give you a list of the nasty mountain hiking injuries they've seen, especially in older men.

Yes, I'm sure you think you can do 100 pounds+ over 20 miles on a 100% grade in a day but, bullshit aside, think about it honestly for a second. Exactly how much weight can YOU actually, consistently carry for one day and be really functional the next day? There is a very good reason that supper light backpacking gear (though extremely expensive) sells so well.

My internal frame pack will handle less than 20 to about 50 very comfortably, although for increasingly shorter distances. It affords excellent balance and load control, much more than the external frame packs I've owned. Even using two hiking poles there are some places I love to go that 50 pounds would be challenging given the slope and ground cover composition. I probably could hump a over 50 pounds for fair distance on a clean, old logging road, but can I guarantee those conditions for the whole trip? Not so much. Then again if I have access to a old logging road I have this great game cart...

Just a final thought: When I started guiding the outfitter I worked for told me not to worry about bears, if anything, a broken ankle in some back country canyon is more likely to kill you than any bear.

For the most part, on my last 2 sheep hunts, I doubt I carried much more than 50 pounds. The days that I took my sheep, I am confident I carried over 100 pounds off the mountain as I carried both guides “stuff” as they dealt with the sheep.

Personally, I find that having the pack properly adjusted is more important than the weight carried.

You had two guides and you still had to carry 100lbs?!
With me and one client and a dead Sheep. Total weight for ALL of our gear is usually right at 100lb each. Including the Sheep. If there’s three people and you ended up with 100lb you got hosed.
Find a pack that fits right. Each brand will let you down at some point and have its highlights as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
Find a pack that fits right. Each brand will let you down at some point and have its highlights as well.

No truer words were ever spoken!

Every pack I ever owned has some feature that initially attracted me and something else I didn't like.

There are custom pack makers but even they won't design a pack exactly the way you want it. I often wished it was possible to have someone build a pack 100% with only what I wanted on it.

Regarding weight Paul makes some good points. I find that realistically once you get above 40 lbs or so you better be carful how you move. Lots of bad things can happen. I'm over 60 with some back problems so my days of fun and games with too heavy packs are definitely on the decline. Of course one advantage of old age is the ability to coerce some young kid to carry the heavy stuff!

quote:

I find that realistically once you get above 40 lbs or so you better be carful how you move. Lots of bad things can happen.

I am over 60yoa also a 40lb or under pack is no trouble.

A 50 to 55 is doable a 60lb plus is a real PITA

I carried 75plus once in a great while really did not like it.

I don't even think I would try now days.

Larry- If you get to Bozeman I volunteer as your designated driver.

I was just through Bozeman late last year.

I have been sick the last week or so. I am tired of sitting inside. Today, I took everything out of my Barney’s pack and put it all in the Stone Glacier. Total about 40 pounds. I took off tired of being cooped up.

Immediately upon putting it on, I did not like it. I did not like the feel on my back. A mile into my walk, I decided that there is no way in hell I could take this in the mountains. The Barney’s pack, even with its problems, feels far better.

My guess is that the SG doesn’t fit.

I am off to Denver Thursday. We are going to a visit to Kifaru.

Bill Jackson's store in Pinellas Park, North St. Petersburg, has a mountaineering store and excellent gunshop. Take your back packs with you and see if they can properly adjust them for you or show you an alternative.
The best pack, is the one that fits you the best and distributes the weight without pressure points.
Try them all. Sell what doesn't fit and chalk it up as the cost of experience.

Anytime you can use a game cart, it is superior to any back pack. Look up the pack mule cart out of Utah.

Outfitters, have young packers. Ask for an extra packer to carry your gear. It is worth the expense. When young, you heal in fair amount of time. AS you get older, it could take years and a lot of Chiropractic adjustments, loss of work never mind the pain. Pay for the extra packer and go on as many hunts as you can.

I just thought of one other thing to consider; how you pack makes a difference too.

Generally put lighter things in the bottom (sleeping bag, etc) and move up to progressively heavier items on top. Also try to keep heavy items closer to your back rather than having them outside where they can make any pack feel terrible.

There's a book that's been out for some time called the Complete Hiker, lots of good words of wisdom in it. Pick up a copy.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I just thought of one other thing to consider; how you pack makes a difference too.

Generally put lighter things in the bottom (sleeping bag, etc) and move up to progressively heavier items on top. Also try to keep heavy items closer to your back rather than having them outside where they can make any pack feel terrible.

There's a book that's been out for some time called the Complete Hiker, lots of good words of wisdom in it. Pick up a copy.

This is indeed the way I had it packed. I had an old sleeping bag in the very bottom. On top of that I had a 16 pound bag of Acorn Rage. On top of that were 3 bags of Acorn Rage which were 5 pounds each. All tightened down.

I will obtain a copy of the book.

I took my Barney's pack apart last night. Some things were loose. I will give it a try hopefully before I head out west.

Thanks all.

Good day larryshores
What outfit are you doing your Stone's sheep hunt with ??
Back packs are like good hunting boots , unless they fit right there nothing but a major pain .
Good luck with your search.

North River Stone. Ron Nemetchek.

Larry,

While in Denver see if you can find a Seek Outside Revolution pack to try out. If you can't, I'd be happy to ship you mine. I can also ship you a Mystery Ranch Marshall to try out. The Seek went to AK with me this year, and did well. 134 pounds in the pack when we weighed it at the float plane headquarters. Seek is made in Grand Junction, CO.

Between those two, what Kifaru makes, Stone, and EXO you will have hit all the major makes that I know of (I'm luke warm on Kuiu packs). EXO is nice, but they don't make a big bag. I wish they made a 7000 cube bag. Their frame is very comfy.

Pay close attention to the shoulder harness on the Kifaru packs. I found them to be less padded than they could be and they cut into my shoulders with around 90 pounds on. That was a while ago, and their packs have changed, but still something to consider.

I've had 100+ pounds on both my Seek and my MR pack. No pack is comfy with that amount of weight, but both are the best I have found for me.

I've not used a Barneys, so I can't compare that one.

Jeremy

Thank you sir. I will look for one.

When "normal" I love the Barney's pack. Something has happened. As I said earlier, I took it apart last night. Some things were very loose. I tightened them up.

My exercise the last couple of weeks has really sucked. I have been down with pneumonia. My wife starts raising hell every time I start exercising. She reminds me that she is a doctor and I should listen to her. Then I piss her off my saying , "yes dear."

Maybe I can try it our before I leave.

Email me some pictures of the Barney's pack Larry. I'll look and see if I can trouble shoot it for you. Otherwise it's more pack than you need in Tajikistan and the Stone Glacier, Kifaru, Mystery Ranch would fit both the stone sheep and marco polo hunts fine.

Brett

I'll be in Florida in April, but over near Inverness area about 1-2 hours from you. Not sure I'd be able to look at it in person, but you never know.

Brett

Brett:

Inverness is about half way between my house and my ranch.

Let me know if it works out. I'll be visiting my wife's family in that area for about 2 weeks in April.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Larry,

While in Denver see if you can find a Seek Outside Revolution pack to try out. If you can't, I'd be happy to ship you mine. I can also ship you a Mystery Ranch Marshall to try out. The Seek went to AK with me this year, and did well. 134 pounds in the pack when we weighed it at the float plane headquarters. Seek is made in Grand Junction, CO.

Between those two, what Kifaru makes, Stone, and EXO you will have hit all the major makes that I know of (I'm luke warm on Kuiu packs). EXO is nice, but they don't make a big bag. I wish they made a 7000 cube bag. Their frame is very comfy.

Pay close attention to the shoulder harness on the Kifaru packs. I found them to be less padded than they could be and they cut into my shoulders with around 90 pounds on. That was a while ago, and their packs have changed, but still something to consider.

I've had 100+ pounds on both my Seek and my MR pack. No pack is comfy with that amount of weight, but both are the best I have found for me.

I've not used a Barneys, so I can't compare that one.

Jeremy

Jeremy:

We went to Kifaru today. They were very nice and helpful.

You are so right about the shoulder straps. I was also concerned about the waist belt.

While they had a superior way to tighten the belt straps, it would not hold.

Bottom line is that I bought a killer jacket . I left without buying a pack.

They still make a good pack and some find them perfect. Just didn't work for me. And perhaps yourself.

Did you get the Lost Park? Great jacket. Kifaru makes some good gear. The Woobie is awesome if you need to bivy.

Jeremy

That is indeed the one.