THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM BACKPACK HUNTING FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  Backpack Hunting    Who uses backup irons on a backpacking rifle?
Page 1 2 

Moderators: Canuck
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Who uses backup irons on a backpacking rifle?
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted Hide Post
It is a matter of preference I suppose. Do what you think best and be aware of the potential pitfalls and compromises.

I've always liked iron sights but almost all my rifles have scopes. I fixed that with my Springfield sporter. I had it stocked for the Lyman 48. Unfortunately I'm also 71 so I have a scope backup for my iron sights. A Jaeger side mount for a Leupold VariX 3. The rifle is so trim with the irons it seems a shame to scope it. Shoots good to.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 01 January 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Scope backup for iron sights - I like it. The proper order of things Smiler

There are other solutions to working with barrel sights of course. Scopes are just the easiest. Unfortunately 99% of rifle owners don't use irons as a back up, or a second choice. It is their, first, last, and only choice. Because they aren't even willing to try to learn to shoot irons of any type. It is just not done anymore.


When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996
 
Posts: 2239 | Location: Where I've bought resident tags:MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA | Registered: 30 January 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of sambarman338
posted Hide Post
A lot of the sambar 'hound men' around here still only use open sights because of the close ranges and rough-and-tumble hunting.

I've still got three rifles with open, tangent sights and one with an aperture plus peeps reserved for a couple of other rifles. Though I'm nudging 67 and have myopia, I can still shoot reasonably well with the open sights, given a big-enough target.

My short sight is lengthening so that I can read books beyond a foot with no glasses and this makes the rear sight more furry when wearing them.

The trick I find is just to evaluate that fuzzy back sight, working out what parts represents the edges, then make sure the picture is similar at each shot. Two-inch groups at 100 yards have been shot doing this.
 
Posts: 4223 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
The human eye can only focus on two objects, the rear sight and the front sight or the front sight and the target, any mixture of the two..I suppose one has to determine which of the three objects to focus on..I focus on the rear and front sight and the target is somewhat blurred, but its the largest of the three, so it works real well for me...Up to about 150 yards I can hold a iron sight dead on a target and concentrate on trigger pull, and shoot fast or slow...With a scope my wiggle is magnified and I tend to grab at the trigger as it floats by the target therefore I shoot better "off hand" up to about 150 yards with irons or a low power scope. I have proved this to folks on a number of occasions teaching shooting with irons...However todays hunters seldom shoot off hand, and sticks are the in thing today it seems, oh what an abomination they be! The best rest is a rock, a tree or something nature put their for the true hunter! Wink


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37889 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
With a receiver or peep sight you do not focus on the rear aperture. You look through it. When I shot National Match for the 4th AD with the M14 we were taught to focus on the front sight and not the target. The aperture helped sharpen the image. With 71 year old eyes the lense just doesn't accomidate anymore but the peep still works for me. Open sights are hopeless though.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 01 January 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of sambarman338
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
The human eye can only focus on two objects, the rear sight and the front sight or the front sight and the target, any mixture of the two..I suppose one has to determine which of the three objects to focus on..I focus on the rear and front sight and the target is somewhat blurred, but its the largest of the three, so it works real well for me... Wink


That sounds like a pistol-shooting outlook, Ray, and with pistols you can more-or-less focus on the back and front sights and let the target blur. That sight alignment is even more critical in pistol sights, of course, because of the short distance between them.

I don't think we can really focus on the front sight and a distant target at exactly the same time, though, but our ageing eyes don't notice the transition as much as when trying to define the closer rear sight on a rifle.

Shooting shotguns, on the other hand, should be all target-focused. If the gun fits properly and we have good form, we can more or less ignore the bead and rib - they will find their own alignment.
 
Posts: 4223 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Fury01
posted Hide Post
I use irons on my backpacking rifles. I use them in case of failure, weather, or just plain enjoyment. I often carry my rifles sans scope for hunting. Big front sights. Favorite is square tall post and a ghost ring peep. While I enjoyed the sharper sight of youth, I am content that the center of a bit fuzzy is still the center. Once accepted the trigger break is all that matters.
Now I need to find a good front sight for my “old man” rifle a Ruger ftw 260. The old Mauser 30-06 the Springfield 35 whelen and the 458 Whitworth are all ready to go.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2049 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
All I do is backpack hunting, sometimes for long periods, and most of it from fly camps. (spike camps?) through exceedingly rugged country, and I am not going out in the mountains for a couple of weeks with only a scope.

There are three scopes in the bottom of a river I used to cross to get in and out of a valley - I dropped them in the water on the way out after they all failed.

I will admit though, that I am the exception, in that many people do not know how to use them with confidence, and so they are limited to a scope.
Of course then there is the people who are just "progressive", and will not consider irons sights because anything old fashioned is worthless.

I just try to be practical. I started out with iron sights because I didn't have much money, so suppose I learned a life skill that has been useful.
 
Posts: 263 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 18 December 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of sambarman338
posted Hide Post
CH, I'm interested to know what your failed scopes were and how they let you down. You may know my outlook but many people think modern scopes are great and that any worry about them is rubbish because of that attitude you mention: that new is 'progressive', so must be better.
 
Posts: 4223 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
An option to consider as a back packer is use a fixed low power scope, 3X Leupold for instance as very little of the tube sticks out the front ring, and that makes all the difference in the world..The big belled long scopes are the culprit for getting out of zero. I would think a back packer with a 3X Leupold would be in good hands, but still wouldn;t hurt to use Talley scope bases and rings and have the small Talley QD peep in ones pocket..and that has worked for me for years in Africa..Most of my big bores were so set up although some carried the Leupold compact 2.5X, the toughest modern day scope I know of by far...It has the cross hairs under the adjustments Im told therefore is all but indestructible, and seems to work..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37889 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of sambarman338
posted Hide Post
That 2.5x Leupold scope of yours still intrigues me, Ray. If you ever decide to sell it, let me know.
 
Posts: 4223 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Its the Leupold compact, I think its still in production..I also have a 4X compact, but never used it on a big bore..

When I shoot a barrel mounted iron sight, I cut the rear V deep and then use a post front sight and take a flush bead or post, like one would do with a S&W revolver that uses a square as opposed to V. This set up was used by the texas rangers of yesteryear as it was fast and accurate, My granddads gun was so set up as such and I grew up shooting it and its the best Ive used for iorns..The shallow V of Africa and England is also a nice iron, I concentrate on the rear and front sight as you declared and put it on the target, right or wrong it works best for me and that's what counts..As for irons, the peep or receiver is the most accurate and its fast, hard to beat and nearly as accurate as the scope, and in many cases, works better than a scope...Many get flaked out at such a statement, in all likelihood they have very little experience with irons and figure it just can't be...What a shame.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37889 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I've been blessed to hunt sheep around the world and for years I was a stickler about having open sights as backup. Yes, "backup"

Slowly, I gravitated away from the extra effort of sighting in and practicing with irons for sheep hunting, even on serious backpack hunts.

If we're talking about Cape buffalo at 30 to maybe 100 yards, irons would he fine. If we're talking sheep or anything else at 200-400+/- yards, only a scope will do and that's just the way it is. Don't shit yourself otherwise.

The nice thing is we all have an opinion and a choice of what to use....that's the awesome part but having a choice doesn't make the truth any less true.

And yes, I sometimes hunt with irons...and revolvers...and archery tackle. One simply has to know the limitations of the tool.
None of the above will out-shoot a scope when a little air is between the muzzle and the target.

Zeke
 
Posts: 1576 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
None of the above will out-shoot a scope when a little air is between the muzzle and the target.


There is a reason that in most match's scoped and iron sighted rifles do not complete against each other
 
Posts: 16962 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Sorry boys but I can,t imagine going into the real thick stuff after a disgruntled or wounded Cape buffalo, an Alaskan Brown Bear, or any Dangerous game, I hestitate to use even a irons sight at barrel range, just point and shoot, and with practice is accurate as hell up to 20 -25 yards, been there done it..Practice your point shooting or instinctive shooting as some refer to it..Its incredibly accurate, some can do that at some very long ranges like 75 yards..I can't point shoot over a scope, don't know anyone that can, and seen it tried by many playing around..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37889 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Sorry boys but I can,t imagine going into the real thick stuff after a disgruntled or wounded Cape buffalo, an Alaskan Brown Bear, or any Dangerous game, I hestitate to use even a irons sight at barrel range, just point and shoot, and with practice is accurate as hell up to 20 -25 yards, been there done it..Practice your point shooting or instinctive shooting as some refer to it..Its incredibly accurate, some can do that at some very long ranges like 75 yards..I can't point shoot over a scope, don't know anyone that can, and seen it tried by many playing around..


Works the same with a proper and properly mounted scope
 
Posts: 16962 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of NormanConquest
posted Hide Post
O.K. here we might get into bones of contention as I like Coopers "Scout Concept" I built up a little Krag with all unneccasary weight removed, jeweled every internal surface, cut + crowned the bbl @ 18", built a trigger w/ no travel just 2.5 lbs. Mounted a Leupold 2.5 LER scope forward so it works like a shotgun, or "scout idea". I live on a hilltop over the valley + have a mounted skeet thrower. Along with shotgunning, I play with my Krag + hit more than I miss. Shooting skeet w/ a rifle is nothing to sneeze at. I got the idea from Gunsite as they were dong a course; good idea for quick target aquissition. A few years ago I saw 3 deer in my garden; I grabbed the Krag, went out + shot all 3 in less time that it took to write this last sentance.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 14686 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
To each his own, makes for good conversation but I doubt if anyone is going to change their mind, and Im good with that because the best advise is do what your satisfied with...

One point that we left out is how nice a iron sighted rifle feels and handles,and how awkward a scope it, but again many don't realize that nor care..Guides and PHs generally bring this up when the topic raises its ugly hear around the campfire..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 37889 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
One point that we left out is how nice a iron sighted rifle feels and handles,and how awkward a scope it, but again many don't realize that nor care..Guides and PHs generally bring this up when the topic raises its ugly hear around the campfire..


A iron sighted rifle of the same make and model as a scope rifle is lighter and carries nicer.

You well not get an argument from me on that point.

But if you can't make hits with it what good is it.

I wish my eye sight was good enough to use a iron sighted rifle effectively.

But 50 yards or so is my limit.

But even under that a properly mounted properly scoped rifle. In practiced hands is faster.

It also allows one to pick out holes in the brush so one can thread a bullet through it.

Also allows one to identify the proper animal.

Last years white tail buck was a prime example.

At about forty yards I could see a deer laying there. The brush was thick enough to obscure his horns. I used my scope see them and make a perfect neck shot DRT.

I have went back several times and wonder how in the heck I made the shot the brush is that thick.

Answer is I was able to find a hole through it with my scope.

Done that so many times I can't count them.

Besides the weight savings and carrying ease.

A properly mounted and properly scope rifle gives nothing up.

A PH's and a guides rifle has a totally different job to do.

Then the rifle of someone that has spent the money to hunt with them.
 
Posts: 16962 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I am an iron sight guy. I have used a scope on my rifle for a long time. Like the above poster says you can find a bullet path through the bush with a scope. Very specific sighting device.

Recently I have realized that most of my hunting/shooting now is on close range cape buffalo so I have set up my big bores for peep sights. I can still see them with my old eyes.

I like the style of iron sights. Fits with my single shot
rifles. Sorta "old school". Not as precise but very simply and satisfying. Nice to carry as I don't use a slings when stalking a buffalo. To each his own.
 
Posts: 2871 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Canada:
I am an iron sight guy. I have used a scope on my rifle for a long time. Like the above poster says you can find a bullet path through the bush with a scope. Very specific sighting device.

Recently I have realized that most of my hunting/shooting now is on close range cape buffalo so I have set up my big bores for peep sights. I can still see them with my old eyes.

I like the style of iron sights. Fits with my single shot
rifles. Sorta "old school". Not as precise but very simply and satisfying. Nice to carry as I don't use a slings when stalking a buffalo. To each his own.


Hunting with non optic mounted firearms.

Like any limitations one puts on ones self. IE bows, handguns ect ect.

If you can live with them go for it.
 
Posts: 16962 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  Backpack Hunting    Who uses backup irons on a backpacking rifle?

Copyright December 1997-2021 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia