Mostly, I'm a bowhunter, but, I do have an interest in using a handgun for hunting. I've come to this forum many times to soak up the real world knowledge offered here. I am curious about the cast bullet vs jacketed bullet comparison in terms of how best, to be blunt, to kill animals. For decades now, us hunters outside of the handgun hunting community, have been given the upside to the use of expanding bullets at high velocity when hunting game. However, reading here, and as far back as the numerous articles written by fellows like Ross Seyfried, cast bullets are(and have been)well regarded in terms of their ability to kill game animals even at comparatively slow to moderate velocities. Using cast bullets at these conservative velocities, are we basically killing animals by exsanguination, as is what occurs when one shoots an animal through the lungs/heart with an arrow, or is something else going on?
It's obvious that the explanation of the high velocity shock mechanism has been largely discredited as a means by which animals are killed, especially when considering handgun bullet velocities. However, what is it about cast lead, non expanding bullets, that makes them as effective, or possibly, even better in some hand gun hunters opinion? On another forum, I've read of Veral Smith who even advocates that cast bullets above a certain velocity began to lose effective killing efficacy, and, once again, I have no basis to debate that position.
I have no experience with shooting animals with either cast or jacketed expanding bullets, but, am able to avow the absolute effectiveness of a 250 FPS 2 or 3 bladed broad head as a lethal means to kill game. Are large bore cast lead bullets just boring a hole threw vital organs and causing high volume blood loss, sort of like a 3 bladed broad head, or is there something I've not considered? Look forward to your responses.

Hi Mike,

My new book covers this topic pretty thoroughly. Not trying to be self aggrandizing, but I dedicated an entire chapter to terminal ballistics and got into the different bullet types and styles pretty deeply. It's a fairly comprehensive look at handgun hunting.

This is the first I have heard about your book Max. I don't think anyone would object to a link to where to purchase it! I will hit Amazon and pick one up. Lee.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
This is the first I have heard about your book Max. I don't think anyone would object to a link to where to purchase it! I will hit Amazon and pick one up. Lee.

Lee, this is my third book and the last for a while. I need a break. I'm still writing articles, but no more books for awhile! I will post a link a little later, but it's available at the usual outlets like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and directly from Gun Digest. Thanks!

Mike

I don't have a bunch of experience but I've taken a half dozen deer with a handgun (TC Contender). In 44 Mag and 357 Max I used JHP bullets 180-200 gr. with quick kills. I took one small doe with a 357 Mag and a SWC bullet. The JHP seem to be quicker killers, not sure if it was the cartridge or bullet though.

I may buy that book by Max, it looks interesting.

There are too many variables. Jacket alloy and thickness, core alloy and hardness ,shape, RN ,meplat etc. My old favorite Speer JSWHP had IIRC, an alloy with the maximum antimony that could be used .Only recovered one bullet which went through 30"of deer including bone .Very nice for a 44mag at less than max and very accurate. Now I'm using Barnes all copper.

Whitworth,
I didn't know you had a new book out. Amazon and you are now a few cents richer and there is a copy in the mail for my post hunting season reading pleasure.

MIkeD
I've taken a few deer with the .44 mag using first the 240gr XTP and then a 320gr SWC given to me by an old friend now gone. I just wasn't impressed with the effect I got with the XTP. The SWC poked a clean hole through the few deer I've taken with it and they ran 20-30 yards leaving a blood trail 10' wide. IT was almost exactly like a hit with a good broadhead. I'm now shooting a 270gr flatpoint made from an NOE mold that is more accurate with less recoil. I just haven't had the opportunity to put one through a deer, yet.

Barnes and aframe are the best for everything up
To elk imho if ya run em hard. Id take a good cast
Over xtps and cheap hp's any day of the week.

For black bears, I will only use or recommend heavy for caliber hard cast, flat metplate bullets. Expanding bullets I have used or witnessed have not reliably penetrated. Tough hide, heavy round ribs, plenty of fat and the jacketed hollow points stop before breaking ribs.

I killed a cape buffalo with an expanding bullet thru the shoulders. Just gotta pick the right one. Heavy for caliber is not as important as maintaining nose profile. I would take a monometal copper solid bullet 25% lighter than an equivalent cast bullet everyday of the week.

quote:

Originally posted by youp50:
For black bears, I will only use or recommend heavy for caliber hard cast, flat metplate bullets. Expanding bullets I have used or witnessed have not reliably penetrated. Tough hide, heavy round ribs, plenty of fat and the jacketed hollow points stop before breaking ribs.

That just depends on the bullet. I have been a proponent of hardcast flat-nosed bullets for a long time, but have seen some quality expanding bullets that actually work as advertised that won't grenade, and penetrate decently. My experiences mirror tradmark's as far as the Barnes XPB and Swift A-frame are concerned. I'm no fan of the XTP however and saw the 250 grain Mag versions in .45 Colt fail miserable recently. I have killed a number of black bears and have not found them to be particularly hard to punch holes through. JMHO.

Little doubt in my mind the Barnes and Swift bullets should be top penetrating expanding bullets. I usually hunt with hounds for bears. No place or reason for me to begin experimenting with bullets.

quote:

I usually hunt with hounds for bears. No place or reason for me to begin experimenting with bullets.

I carry my 41 or 44 when running bears with the hounds.

I have not had any trouble using hard cast bullets on the bears I shot.

What is your opinion on Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator bullets?

Jiri

For game like deer and hogs the Barnes XPB would probably be great. But according to John Linebaugh, the XPB over expands. Probably great on a broadside lung shot on elk or simular. Not what I'm after for bear tho.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Hi Mike,

My new book covers this topic pretty thoroughly. Not trying to be self aggrandizing, but I dedicated an entire chapter to terminal ballistics and got into the different bullet types and styles pretty deeply. It's a fairly comprehensive look at handgun hunting.

Max

Just received a copy of your book yesterday, looks like a great read. I'm trying to locate a 34-40, can you help?

quote:

Originally posted by Greg K:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Hi Mike,

My new book covers this topic pretty thoroughly. Not trying to be self aggrandizing, but I dedicated an entire chapter to terminal ballistics and got into the different bullet types and styles pretty deeply. It's a fairly comprehensive look at handgun hunting.

Max

Just received a copy of your book yesterday, looks like a great read. I'm trying to locate a 34-40, can you help?

Yeah Greg, my editor got an earful over that from me. Of course he blamed the art director. At least he got my name rights.

For deer, both work, but if I was planning on shooting anything mean or big Id go with hard cast keith simi wadcutter.