The Accurate Reloading Forums
Back to the 50 cal double tap
19 June 2012, 20:17
OLBIKERBack to the 50 cal double tap
Seems to me it was said no one could pull the trigger that fast.Well I am going to dispute that.Watch this.
http://www.wimp.com/fastestgunman/Sorry, am I supposed to be impressed by Mr. Modest "the only thing faster than me is the speed of light"? "I have won 3,500 trophies" etc. etc. The fact remains that this guy is undoubtedly very fast, but that implies that these "double taps" with the 500 should be extremely rare, if indeed they are caused by human actions. It does not seem that they are so rare that they could only be caused by Mr. "speed of light".
Peter.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
19 June 2012, 20:25
WhitworthYes, it has taken him a lifetime to get to that level, but some were suggesting that a rank amateur could pull the trigger as fast while reacting to recoil.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
19 June 2012, 20:28
Whitworthquote:
Originally posted by Peter:
Sorry, am I supposed to be impressed by Mr. Modest "the only thing faster than me is the speed of light"? "I have won 3,500 trophies" etc. etc. The fact remains that this guy is undoubtedly very fast, but that implies that these "double taps" with the 500 should be extremely rare, if indeed they are caused by human actions. It does not seem that they are so rare that they could only be caused by Mr. "speed of light".
Peter.
Haha! Yes, he is very humble indeed!
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
20 June 2012, 01:31
big_footSince the dead horse is already bieng beaten here, don't overlook the fact that he's shooting blanks out of a SA only handgun!!
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20 June 2012, 08:21
tek4260No need to be modest when you can back it up!
20 June 2012, 16:31
Whitworthquote:
Originally posted by tek4260:
No need to be modest when you can back it up!
Indeed!
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
21 June 2012, 05:57
OLBIKERquote:
Originally posted by Peter:
Sorry, am I supposed to be impressed by Mr. Modest "the only thing faster than me is the speed of light"? "I have won 3,500 trophies" etc. etc. The fact remains that this guy is undoubtedly very fast, but that implies that these "double taps" with the 500 should be extremely rare, if indeed they are caused by human actions. It does not seem that they are so rare that they could only be caused by Mr. "speed of light".
Peter.
I am just saying it can be done.I am not saying any Joe Blow can do it.
21 June 2012, 16:44
pacecarsBob is a showman and a damn fast shot. He ain't bragging, just stating the facts. He has pulled a lot of triggers to get that good.
21 June 2012, 18:17
Redhawk1Not again with this!!!!!!!! That horse is DEAD! Quit beating it!!!
If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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21 June 2012, 18:20
WhitworthDead, burried, decomposing, and still getting the crap kicked out of it......
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
21 June 2012, 19:34
OLBIKERquote:
Originally posted by Whitworth:
Dead, burried, decomposing, and still getting the crap kicked out of it......
Well I am suffering from no new gun purchases and need to keep my mind occupied.
21 June 2012, 19:49
Whitworthquote:
Originally posted by OLBIKER:
quote:
Originally posted by Whitworth:
Dead, burried, decomposing, and still getting the crap kicked out of it......
Well I am suffering from no new gun purchases and need to keep my mind occupied.
Haha! I completely understand!
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
28 June 2012, 01:23
george roofYou guys need to watch "Gun Stories" tonight on the Outdoor Channel. They're talking about the incidental double tap with a .44 magnum with the SAME explanation we've been giving.
RETIRED Taxidermist
28 June 2012, 01:36
WhitworthSo it wasn't caused be the HUGELY DEBILITATING RECOIL??????
It's only a .44 mag afterall.....
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
28 June 2012, 15:43
Redhawk1No it was caused by the same reaction to recoil, people that are not use to it.
Like I said, and no one answered my question, if it were a gun problem, then why did it not happen to me after 4000 rounds, but the same gun it happened to someone that was not use to the recoil of such guns?
Sure by today's big bore handguns, the 44 Mag is not a heavy recoiling gun. But compared to the 357 Mag, it was. The same thing happened then as it does now, people trying for the first time shooting a gun they have no clue how much recoil the gun has.
I watched that show last night as well, and had to laugh. I thought that some people no matter how you present the truth and facts, that they just can't bring themselves to believe it. Sounds like some of the liberals I deal with, when I talk about the Constitution, Freedom and Liberty!
If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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28 June 2012, 16:16
tek4260quote:
Originally posted by Redhawk1:
No it was caused by the same reaction to recoil, people that are not use to it.
Like I said, and no one answered my question, if it were a gun problem, then why did it not happen to me after 4000 rounds, but the same gun it happened to someone that was not use to the recoil of such guns?
Sure by today's big bore handguns, the 44 Mag is not a heavy recoiling gun. But compared to the 357 Mag, it was. The same thing happened then as it does now, people trying for the first time shooting a gun they have no clue how much recoil the gun has.
I watched that show last night as well, and had to laugh. I thought that some people no matter how you present the truth and facts, that they just can't bring themselves to believe it. Sounds like some of the liberals I deal with, when I talk about the Constitution, Freedom and Liberty!
Simple, you have enough strength and hold it correctly. The inexperienced shooters shown in the video clips aren't holding it firm enough and it lets the revolver recoil and twist differently than it does when you fire it, thus letting the cylinder rotate and the hammer bounce enough to cause the double.
28 June 2012, 16:32
Redhawk1quote:
Originally posted by tek4260:
Simple, you have enough strength and hold it correctly. The inexperienced shooters shown in the video clips aren't holding it firm enough and it lets the revolver recoil and twist differently than it does when you fire it, thus letting the cylinder rotate and the hammer bounce enough to cause the double.
It is not caused by hammer bounce, if you knew the design of the S&W action you would know it is impossible, the trigger has to be fully pulled back in order to allow the hammer to strike the firing pin. If the trigger is fully back and the cylinder latch is engaged, the cylinder will not rotate. It is a double pull of the trigger. FACT!
If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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28 June 2012, 18:20
jwp475quote:
Originally posted by Redhawk1:
quote:
Originally posted by tek4260:
Simple, you have enough strength and hold it correctly. The inexperienced shooters shown in the video clips aren't holding it firm enough and it lets the revolver recoil and twist differently than it does when you fire it, thus letting the cylinder rotate and the hammer bounce enough to cause the double.
It is not caused by hammer bounce, if you knew the design of the S&W action you would know it is impossible, the trigger has to be fully pulled back in order to allow the hammer to strike the firing pin. If the trigger is fully back and the cylinder latch is engaged, the cylinder will not rotate. It is a double pull of the trigger. FACT!
The S&W cylinder unlocking under the stresses of firing has been well documented.
I believe that some have pulled the trigger twice, but I know that this double firing happened to a very experienced shooter that regularly shoots revolvers with much more recoil
Either way it is a dangerous situation. If it can and does happen, it's not a good thing.
_____________________________________________________
A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
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28 June 2012, 19:25
56hawkquote:
Originally posted by jwp475:
The S&W cylinder unlocking under the stresses of firing has been well documented.
Has this ever been documented when the gun is on a machine rest?
OK, we are getting nowhere here. Let me ask a question. What kind of test would determine this one way or the other? A Ransom rest, as has just been suggested? If not, why not? An "experienced" shooter? How many rounds fired before we disprove one theory or the other? What other suggestions?
Exactly what test would prove or disprove your theory?
Peter.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
29 June 2012, 00:19
jwp475quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
OK, we are getting nowhere here. Let me ask a question. What kind of test would determine this one way or the other? A Ransom rest, as has just been suggested? If not, why not? An "experienced" shooter? How many rounds fired before we disprove one theory or the other? What other suggestions?
Exactly what test would prove or disprove your theory?
Peter.
The experienced shooter that had the double happen did not have it happen the first time he shot the revolver. The revolver didn't double every shot after either
High speed video would be the best way IMHO takenfrom multiple angles> That way the video could be viewd slowly frame by frame from different angles inorder to clearly determine the cause
_____________________________________________________
A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill
JWP, I did not mean my question to apply only to you, but to proponents of both sides. High speed video is fine, but assumes repeatability at will! I am not sure we are at that point, are we?
Personally, I am not convinced by either proposal, but would like to see a resolution.
Peter.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
29 June 2012, 23:12
Redhawk1Hope I never have to be the one doing the shooting. I have shot thousands of 500 Mag rounds, and never had it happen to me. So do we need to keep bringing people out, and see if it happens to them. And if it did not happen to me with my gun after 4000 rounds, but it did when someone else shot it. Is it the gun or the shooter??? Sounds like the shooter to me.. If it were a gun problem, it would of happend to me..
If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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30 June 2012, 17:00
jwp475quote:
Originally posted by Redhawk1:
Hope I never have to be the one doing the shooting. I have shot thousands of 500 Mag rounds, and never had it happen to me. So do we need to keep bringing people out, and see if it happens to them. And if it did not happen to me with my gun after 4000 rounds, but it did when someone else shot it. Is it the gun or the shooter??? Sounds like the shooter to me.. If it were a gun problem, it would of happend to me..
IS your revolver the only one in question or are there others?
How long have you owned yours?
_____________________________________________________
A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill
30 June 2012, 17:38
Redhawk1Oh I am sure there are others, if not this would not of been discussed.
I have owned 3 of the S&W 500 Mags since 2003 when they came out, and 2 more from 2006 and 2008.
I have seen this happen in my gun, and also heard of it from others with the 500 Mag, when a new shooter to the heavy recoiling 500 mag. Not a novice shooter, just new to the 500 mag. But as I said many time, it never happened to me with the gun. If it were truly a gun issue, I would of had that experience a least once in 4000 rounds, don't you think?
If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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03 July 2012, 07:54
george roofPeter, you seem to have missed the obvious: There is no "problem". If there was any credibility to the far fetched claims here, Smith&Wesson couldn't dare continue marketing that firearm. You'll notice that the people on here showing the most skepticism aren't being backed up by the professionals who manufacture and test fire these firearms. There's a reason for that.
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