I bowhunt in Grizzly country and am considering carrying a pistol "just in case". I realize that any pistol is a last ditch effort against a grizzly. Would a standard .45 or 40 S&W be adequate with premium bullets? I do not want to carry anything larger than a 44 Mag, and something lighter and easier to carry would be nice. Anybody heard or seen of any actual bear shootings with one of these rounds.

I attended a shooting course with a lion hunting guide from New Mexico who used his 1911A1 to gun down a black bear that was mixing it up with his hounds. Said eight rounds of 230 gr ball did the trick. If you don't own a pistol yet I'd certainly choose something bigger and lighter, like a S&W M329.

What about the Ruger Alaskan??

An aluminum or titanium framed 44 mag .Not pleasant to shoot with full loads but it's for emergency only. For other shooting with that gun us 44 specials.

I have seen one bear shot with a 40 180 hollow points unknow brand. the preformance was awful piss poor penetration for a bear 8 or 9 inchs but there those loads were made for shooting humans. The bear was about a 300 lb black shots were to next and shoulders. The bear was finshed off with a12 ga slug. the 180s hardly expanded. Even shots to the neck failed to break the spine.

I belive I still have the bullets laying around after they were dug out by a freind of mine.

You might consider a 1911 "suite." The standard 45 ACP for general use, a .22 LR barrel and spring for grouse and rabbits, and a .460 Rowland barrel and spring when in Grizzly country. The Rowland is the ballistic equivalent of a .44 Manglum, but is a lot gentler to shoot in the semi-suto configuration.

I would not consider any gun that can't put a big, heavy flat nose boolit all the way through a bear from any angle.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I would not consider any gun that can't put a big, heavy flat nose boolit all the way through a bear from any angle.

My thinking exactly.....

Mosty people with experience will try to talk ar ridicule you out of carring a handgun and direct you to at least a 12ga. ... or 45-70 lever. Unless of course some of the double guys suff by Then you'll cetianly need a .500 Jeffery

All those big heavy weapons are great IF you'll actually carry it and IF you can use it.

When it comes to dangerous game reloading is seldom an option...heck a second shoot migt not be an option.

GEt the biggest handcanon you can ACCURATELY get a good shoot off with and carry it. Cances are if your hunt goes south on you your're only going to get one shoot off anyway.

With pratice most co-ordendated adults can get two rounds off from a single action ALMOST as fast as they can with a double action. Of course one must not freeze up & panic. You know, when 800# of pissed-out griz is charging.

Take a look at the S&W 329PD and 357PD. They are .44 and .41 magnum, respectively. Both are aluminum/scanadium with stainless bore tubes, and both weigh just 26 ounces. Check out Garrett, maybe Buffalo Bore or Corbon for custom hard-cast loads. I think it is Garrett who makes one specifically for the 329.

On the last page of the "handguns and grizzlies" thread, I brought up the 45-08 that is being used in Canada for black and grizzly bear protection.
I guess It has been used on both and does work. They are shooting a 200 SWC at 1300 fps. So it has a flat meplat and sharp sholder to cut blood vesels and break bones... Where as the 230 ball may penetrate( the round nose more pushing things out of the way as it goes through?), but the flat nose and corners does more internal damage.
I don't think you would want any expanding bullet. You would want a hard cast bullet that will penetrate to the vitals disrupting things along it's way.
If you could find a 45 Win mag or 50 AE, they should be even better.
The Ruger Alaskan would be nice for a revolver. The Taurus titanium in 41 mag would be pretty tempting to get.
I have a 4" 500 S&W and recently got some 700gn cast bullets for it. I think that would definatly penetrate anything you pointed it at. I picked mine up used(5 rounds) for less than any Kimber 45 in the local gun shop.
A very good point was brought up. You have to have it with you to do any good. So get something that you can comfortably carry and will fit in a holster that doesn't interfere with your archery gear. A sholder holster is nice, but does it stick out far enough to catch on the bow string? Probably a light revolver in a cross draw belt holster would be the way to go. On gunbroker, I found some really nice holsters for not alot of money. I think they are made by EJH in Texas. I bought a couple last year and really do like them. The guys that make them are also handgun hunters.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=49948450
For light and small, my Ruger 4 5/8" stainless blackhawk in 45 colt fits the bill and isn't too much money. I can load it with 350gn hard cast boolits to.

CHAPTER 2:

I guess I got a little carried away up there.

There is another technique we use here in the Catskill Mtns on black bear .I'm not sure it will work on Grizzlys.This has to be done by someone really knowledgable . When the bear attacks you thrust your arm into his mouth .Timing must be perfect.Reach down as far as you can and grab his tail. Then jerk your arm out of his mouth and the bear will be turned inside out . He will then no longer be a threat !!

Mete -- LOL -- that's funny!!

Against a grizzly, a 45 or 40 is about as effective as a sling shot. A stout single action, preferably a Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh with the 4 3/4" barrel, stoked up with some serious hardcast bullets would make for a fine combination. Don't want to sell you first born to buy a Freedom Arms??? The Ruger Alaskan is decent... As is the Taurus 44 Ultralites and Trackers. Taurus even makes a 500S&W with a 2 inch barrel if you're into hand grenades

quote:

Originally posted by ManCannon:
Against a grizzly, a 45 or 40 is about as effective as a sling shot. A stout single action, preferably a Freedom Arms 475 Linebaugh with the 4 3/4" barrel, stoked up with some serious hardcast bullets would make for a fine combination. Don't want to sell you first born to buy a Freedom Arms??? The Ruger Alaskan is decent... As is the Taurus 44 Ultralites and Trackers. Taurus even makes a 500S&W with a 2 inch barrel if you're into hand grenades

Let's not leave out the BFR's

Lars45,

the 45-08 sounds similar to the .460 Rowland. The Rowland shoves a 230 gr slug out at a bit more than 1300 fps, and the 200 at 1400 fps. The 24# recoil spring and ported barrel in the 1911 make accurate successive shots reasonably fast, and that hasn't been my experience with revolvers.

The 45-08 is the 45 super,the Rowland is a longer case loaded to higher pressure as powder capacity is the same for both.The reason is that the C.O.A.L. is the same in order to function through the magazine,so the bullet is seated deeper in the Rowland

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I would not consider any gun that can't put a big, heavy flat nose boolit all the way through a bear from any angle.

Did you guys see the article about useing 300 gn bullets in the 45acp? April 2006 Handloader. They look like a rebated boat tail, from Northwest Custom Projectile, PO Box 0127, Butte MT 59701
They are getting a 300 gn bullet going 770 fps.

With the semi auto, you could get more rounds off(into the bear?) quicker than a revolver. Shooting fast, I can shoot a semi auto more accurately then I can a revolver, double or single action.

I looked on Gunbroker for 45 win mags or 50AE and it looks like the prices start around $1100. You can pickup a Blackhawk in 45 Colt for around $300 ish.

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I would not consider any gun that can't put a big, heavy flat nose boolit all the way through a bear from any angle.

Did you guys see the article about useing 300 gn bullets in the 45acp? April 2006 Handloader. They look like a rebated boat tail, from Northwest Custom Projectile, PO Box 0127, Butte MT 59701
They are getting a 300 gn bullet going 770 fps.

With the semi auto, you could get more rounds off(into the bear?) quicker than a revolver. Shooting fast, I can shoot a semi auto more accurately then I can a revolver, double or single action.

I looked on Gunbroker for 45 win mags or 50AE and it looks like the prices start around $1100. You can pickup a Blackhawk in 45 Colt for around $300 ish.

You are trying to take a gun of marginal power and make it perform like a gun of much greater power.
Why re-invent the wheel??

I considered the Taurus tacker lightweight, but I am not sure how accurately I can shoot a 26 oz 44 mag. I really dont want to lug a five pound handgun around where I hunt elk. It's around 10,000 feet and very steep.

I have a 40 S&W from Glock. I should probably start looking around for something larger, but money is definately an issue. Maybe a can of pepper spray is the way to go. Use it to blind him, then shoot him at close range with the 40. Dont tell the feds.

A Corbon tech told me the Ruger Blackhawk 41 mag with a 4 5/8" barrel I purchased loaded with 265gr meplat bullets will take down a griz he said that's the one he carries with those bullets and uses in S. Dakota,Wyoming.etc.I also have a Ruger Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel in 45lc that I load with cast performance bullets and commercial jacketed hp bullets from sierra,hornaday,nosler & speer.

.45ACP or .40SW for Grizzly.......NEITHER!
For SD against black bear in the lower 48, either would be OK using FMJ's moving as fast as possible. I found some at DoubleTap:
.40 SW 200gr FMJ-FP @1050fps 4"bbl
.45ACP 230gr FMJ @ 1010fps 5"bbl

quote:

Originally posted by JABS:
.45ACP or .40SW for Grizzly.......NEITHER!
For SD against black bear in the lower 48, either would be OK using FMJ's moving as fast as possible. I found some at DoubleTap:
.40 SW 200gr FMJ-FP @1050fps 4"bbl
.45ACP 230gr FMJ @ 1010fps 5"bbl

Both the Buffalo Bore and the Corbon 230 grainers broke 1000 FPS out of two of my 5" barreled 1911's

Your pretty close to West Yellowstone. Take a run down and chk out the bears at the Grizzly Interpretive Center.

I think a close up look at a mature bear will take the .40 S&W/.45 acp idea right out of your head.

FN in MT

Check out the taurus tracker 44 mag. It is fairly light and with some practice would be easy to shoot. If the 300 grain federal castcore is short enough to load in the cylinder I would use those if you dont handload.

I have a 41 tracker titanium and use 250 castcores in mine. It is light and accurate.

Given a choice of those two I'd say neither...

If restricted to a 1911 style pistol? I'd be more comfortable
with a 10mm than with a 40Short&Weak.

what load? 180gr soft points loaded as fast as I could make them go...

Or some of the original Norma 200gr FMJ loads.

AllanD

I think I would pass on both 40 or 45 myself. I might agree with the 10mm as I used to have a Colt in 10mm and it is a heck of a round. However I would rather have at least my .41 mag or bigger if I was worried about Grizzly Bears.

I'm thinking the 329 Smith......what is it.....Airweight or something?? Anyhow, it's a horribly light alloy .44 Mag.......carry a lot shoot a little sort of deal. I carry a Glock 29 10mm for a few PA black bears that have lost all respect for humankind. And I feel fairly well protected should I need to go at it. But I don't think Vegas would even lay odds for me-vs-grizzly with my Glock. I'm sure the 10 mm would be better than a .40 or a .45. But there ain't no comparison anywhere among the three to a .429 300 grain hard lead cast. JMHO

I have to agree that some guys should go look at a real bear, stuffed or otherwise. With some of the pea shooters being thought of, it would be better to learn to reach 40 mph in 2 seconds.
I guarantee that anyone having a 1200# griz coming at you at 30 mph, you will throw that little gun at it and start to churn up the ground. Might be better to dig yourself out of sight like a badger.
Short of a big rifle, you better have stopping power and know how to get out the gun and use it under stress.
The strangest talk is that someone doesn't want to carry any weight when it could save your life. Just have to have a 2# gun or it gets too heavy--OH HEAVENS, ITH JUTHT TOO HEAVY. Your boots weigh more then that.
My .475 with a 7-1/2" barrel only weighs 4-1/2# with a scope on it. Remove the scope, load it and how hard is that to carry? Take the candy bars out of your pockets and replace the weight with a GUN!
I sometimes wonder how many guys grew up hunting big game with BB or pellet guns? The trend today is to go smaller and lighter both in guns and arrows, to see what can be gotten away with. Animals have not gotten smaller and weaker like the human race has.

Oh boy, here we go again.

In .45 the springfield XD with 13rds using ball. Or, get a 1911 .45 and switch it out to .400 corbon for the trip.

The .40 is out of the question. 5'' .454 taurus would be good as well.

Of course others will answer with their god like knowledge and totally miss your original question of .45 or .40.

quote:

Originally posted by Gentleman Jack:
Oh boy, here we go again.

In .45 the springfield XD with 13rds using ball. Or, get a 1911 .45 and switch it out to .400 corbon for the trip.

The .40 is out of the question. 5'' .454 taurus would be good as well.

Of course others will answer with their god like knowledge and totally miss your original question of .45 or .40.

There's quite a distinguishing line between "god like knowledge" and the sincere desire to not see another human being get his ass eaten by a griz.

Self deffence would be different than hunting and I have carried a 1911 once while bowhunting for Black bear on a stand that also had a sow with cubs. I had a mag full of 230gr SXT's. Would I hunt bear with this? No. But at two feet away climbing up under my treestand I think I'd be more than well enough armed. When I think of "self defense" I picture confrentation about 0-5 feet and shots are almost dirrectly into the head or in worst case senatio, up into the chin/throat from under him.

quote:

Originally posted by NBHunter:
Self deffence would be different than hunting and I have carried a 1911 once while bowhunting for Black bear on a stand that also had a sow with cubs. I had a mag full of 230gr SXT's. Would I hunt bear with this? No. But at two feet away climbing up under my treestand I think I'd be more than well enough armed. When I think of "self defense" I picture confrentation about 0-5 feet and shots are almost dirrectly into the head or in worst case senatio, up into the chin/throat from under him.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Gentleman Jack:
Oh boy, here we go again.

In .45 the springfield XD with 13rds using ball. Or, get a 1911 .45 and switch it out to .400 corbon for the trip.

The .40 is out of the question. 5'' .454 taurus would be good as well.

Of course others will answer with their god like knowledge and totally miss your original question of .45 or .40.

How many attacking or not attacking Grizzleys have you succesfully used your 45 ACP on??

quote:

Originally posted by NBHunter:
Self deffence would be different than hunting and I have carried a 1911 once while bowhunting for Black bear on a stand that also had a sow with cubs. I had a mag full of 230gr SXT's. Would I hunt bear with this? No. But at two feet away climbing up under my treestand I think I'd be more than well enough armed. When I think of "self defense" I picture confrentation about 0-5 feet and shots are almost dirrectly into the head or in worst case senatio, up into the chin/throat from under him.

There is a difference between Black Bears and an enraged Grizz in which a person would more than likely be on the ground.
Tell us about your sucsessfull use of your 45 ACP on BEARS..Are you sure that the SXT's will give adequate penetration??..........

quote:

The strangest talk is that someone doesn't want to carry any weight when it could save your life. Just have to have a 2# gun or it gets too heavy--

For bivy hunting I tell people the best way to lighten the load is drop ten ppounds of belly fat before your hunt.

I hjave had the cance to bowhunt around Griz or Brownies but, I have walked a few miles with black bears while bowhunting.

Common sence & good woodsmanship will keep yopu out of most trouble before it happens. what every you take have it with once you game goes down. That's going tp be the time you'll be most likely to get into a situtation.
A Freedom Arms won't be so heavy when your're not5 draging that spare tire around too.

If I had a choice between the two, and it was my only choice, I would opt for the .45 ACP or in my case I can use .45 AR cartridges in my Taurus 455 TI. The bullet I would carry would be one of these two

or

255-gr WFN PB from Beartooth Bullets and or the 300-gr WFNGC also from Beartooth Bullets

Either one of these can be loaded just under 1,000 FPS and would work real well.

Some guys here have sense, others just do not. A 200# black bear is a far cry from a griz. Add 1000# and go shoot at it with your little ACP or .40.
I opt for 400 gr boolits or better.

I wouldn't consider anything less than a heavy loaded .45 Colt or .44 Mag in a strong SA revolver like the Ruger Blackhawk or Freedom Arms firing 300-325gr hard cast Keith bullets at 1,200+ fps, and even that I think is marginal.

I am still waiting on NBHunter and Gentleman Jack to share thier sucess stories with us on Grizz useing the 45 ACP