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Electronic Sights for High-recoil Pistols - which are best?
25 February 2014, 20:06
Ackley Improved UserElectronic Sights for High-recoil Pistols - which are best?
I see some pistols rigged with electronic sights such as Aimpoint and the like.
Do these sights help with accuracy and would they work for a 454 Casull on either a Ruger revolver or a 500 S&W revolver?
Which electronic sight product would you recommend?
Regards, AIU
25 February 2014, 20:13
WhitworthI use Ultradot's red dot-type sights. Scopes are more precise, but not as easy to acquire quickly and not as good in low light IMO. Ultradots can withstand an inordinate amount of abuse and I have put many thousands of heavily recoiling rounds (like the .480 Ruger, .475 Linebaugh, .454 Casull, .500 JRH, and .500 Linebaugh) through revolvers equipped with Ultradots with no detriment to the sight. Not as precise as a scope, typically, but when you get the hang of them, you can shoot pretty well. I shot this 5-shot 50 yard group recently with a .454 Casull Ruger Super Redhawk, equipped with an Ultradot 30.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
25 February 2014, 21:13
larrysI would agree with Whitworth. If you can find the Ultradot 30 as he mentioned above, that is best for better field of view, than the standard diameter. I have one on my turkey and slug shotgun and it has never waivered.
Larry
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson
26 February 2014, 01:03
JCS271Ultradot! I have nearly 20yrs on my oldest one and it is currently mounted on my Benelli 12ga coyote gun. Outstanding products at a great price.
"The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation."
"The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln
26 February 2014, 03:57
WV Hitman[QUOTE]Originally posted by WV Hitman:
I know everyone sings the praise of the Ultradot, so they must be great. The only dot sight I ever used was an Aimpoint which was good.
I'm going to hunt several very dangerous animals next year and I decided to get a dot sight. My perceived problem with all the dot sights that are in a tube is the field of view. I think this is very important with dangerous animals. A few years ago I took a full charging elephant at 12 yards! with a 2 1/2-7X Simmons at 2 1/2X . His head obviously filled up the entire scope that close and I had a heck of a time finding the land marks on his head for a brain shot. I barely missed, put him on the ground and needed 2 finishers. It was a sphincter tightening experience.
So, this time I want a "bigger picture". I ruled out all tube dot scopes. My next choice was a "big screen" illuminated sight. The price range on these are crazy. I only intended to use this for the one particular hunt and never again, so I didn't intend to put big bucks in it. I took a chance and bought a BSA panoramic illuminated sight. Cheap, but would it hold up on my .416 Taylor (full length .458 Mag. necked to .416, 400 gr. bullet at 2100 fps).
I've had it on my Taylor for a month and put 70+ rounds through it. Works fine. Never came loose. Hitting plate size rocks out to 150 with ease and offhand to 100. Will it hold up. I'll find out because I'm going to shoot the crap out of it. Better to fail here than on the hunt.
One thing I did notice. On bright sunny days, the red dot is very hard to see. I got the one with the green dot option. It shows up very well in the sun.
Did I choose wisely. We'll see and I'll be honest about it. If It holds up to the .416 then .454s and .500s will be a piece of cake.
Larry Rogers
26 February 2014, 06:26
FreedomVery nicely done on that group Whit!!!!!!!!
I also place another vote for the Ultra Dot...I have the 25 and a 30.. I have pounded the 25 on a 460 S&W and a 50 cal handcannon....she's still shooting great.
They're lighter weight than a scope so they are easier to keep in place/tight on a heavy recoiling revolver....they just don't move...my SRH454 destroyed my variable Nikon tube.
Battery life is awsome.. I've forgotten and left it on for a week. It will still light up. They have 11 brightness settings. So sunny days are not problem. Just before dark it is a little too bright even on setting 1. But not so bright that you couldn't make the shot.
26 February 2014, 19:09
crabbies3I have the ultra dot 30 on a 44 mag Blackhawk ,and a ultra dot 30 on a BFR 500 JRH both hold up real well. I also highly recommend them a great sight at a reasonable price. tks KEN
26 February 2014, 19:42
Whitworthquote:
Originally posted by WV Hitman:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by WV Hitman:
I know everyone sings the praise of the Ultradot, so they must be great. The only dot sight I ever used was an Aimpoint which was good.
I'm going to hunt several very dangerous animals next year and I decided to get a dot sight. My perceived problem with all the dot sights that are in a tube is the field of view. I think this is very important with dangerous animals. A few years ago I took a full charging elephant at 12 yards! with a 2 1/2-7X Simmons at 2 1/2X . His head obviously filled up the entire scope that close and I had a heck of a time finding the land marks on his head for a brain shot. I barely missed, put him on the ground and needed 2 finishers. It was a sphincter tightening experience.
So, this time I want a "bigger picture". I ruled out all tube dot scopes. My next choice was a "big screen" illuminated sight. The price range on these are crazy. I only intended to use this for the one particular hunt and never again, so I didn't intend to put big bucks in it. I took a chance and bought a BSA panoramic illuminated sight. Cheap, but would it hold up on my .416 Taylor (full length .458 Mag. necked to .416, 400 gr. bullet at 2100 fps).
I've had it on my Taylor for a month and put 70+ rounds through it. Works fine. Never came loose. Hitting plate size rocks out to 150 with ease and offhand to 100. Will it hold up. I'll find out because I'm going to shoot the crap out of it. Better to fail here than on the hunt.
One thing I did notice. On bright sunny days, the red dot is very hard to see. I got the one with the green dot option. It shows up very well in the sun.
Did I choose wisely. We'll see and I'll be honest about it. If It holds up to the .416 then .454s and .500s will be a piece of cake.
Doc, I have used an Ultradot on a few rifles as well, to include my .416, and it held up well. I think the revolvers are harder on them than rifles. That said, Ultradot also makes reflexive-type red dots as well. I have a couple and haven't thoroughly vetted them yet, but so far so good. If they are anything like their tube-style brethren, then they will be tough.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
27 February 2014, 05:22
Ackley Improved UserThanks guys - great reports. This is exactly the info I was look for. Regards, AIU
27 February 2014, 05:48
PeterWhitworth, what is the advantage of the reflex type sight over the tube?
Peter
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
27 February 2014, 05:57
Whitworthquote:
Originally posted by Peter:
Whitworth, what is the advantage of the reflex type sight over the tube?
Peter
Peter, some guys just dislike looking into a tube and like the idea of an open screen. The reflexive sights are much more vulnerable to the elements and to breakage because they are exposed. I like and use both, however.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
27 February 2014, 05:58
John GaltMy vote goes to the Trijicon RMR adjustable LED dot sight in either 3.25 MOA or 6.5 MOA. I have one each and they're mounted on a few big bore revolvers. The sight is designed to route the recoil energy away from the glass, or so they say... These sights are supposedly tough enough to be mounted on .50 BMG chain guns... and the like.
-John
27 February 2014, 06:05
Whitworth$170 will put you into an Ultradot 30 with a lifetime warranty. I have one that withstood literally thousands of full-tilt .475 Linebaugh rounds (420s at 1,350), a whole slew of load development on a BFR in .500 JRH, some time on an 8-lb .416 Remington Mauser, and on to my .500 Linebaugh SRH where it put up with a truckload of abuse. Then on to various other big-bore revolvers to include .480s and .454s. It has been dropped out of tree stands twice, helped kill a truckload of animals, and after seven years of abuse, it just keeps on trucking.......
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
27 February 2014, 11:42
Ackley Improved UserWhich is better the 25 mm tube or the 30 mm tube?
27 February 2014, 15:28
Whitworthquote:
Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Which is better the 25 mm tube or the 30 mm tube?
I prefer the 30mm to the 25mm as the slightly larger field of view agrees with me. However, the 25 will get it done as well.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
27 February 2014, 17:31
WhitworthHere's a lousy picture of one of the reflexive sights -- an Ultradot L/T -- it's very small and light:
And here is an Ultradot 30 (which is also light at only 4 oz):
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
27 February 2014, 18:53
SnowwolfeUltradots all the way. Been using them for at least 10 yards and never experienced any problems with any of them.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
27 February 2014, 21:51
Ackley Improved Userquote:
Originally posted by Whitworth:
Here's a lousy picture of one of the reflexive sights -- an Ultradot L/T -- it's very small and light:
And here is an Ultradot 30 (which is also light at only 4 oz):
Whitworth, where did you buy those 30 mm Ruger rings? I'd like the 30 mm tube, if possible. Regards, AIU
PS. Thanks again for the nice responses - this thread will be a resource for many.
27 February 2014, 22:46
WhitworthThey are Ruger rings. Super Redhawks come from the factory with 25mm (1-inch) rings, but if yours are like new, Ruger will swap you for a set of the 30mm units. They will also sell you a set, but I would opt for the swap if possible as they are a bit on the spendy side.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
28 February 2014, 06:48
Snyperquote:
My perceived problem with all the dot sights that are in a tube is the field of view.
There shouldn't be any "field of view" problems if you're keeping both eyes open and focusing on the target instead of trying to look "through" the sights
It should look like the dot is just floating on the target and you should still have full peripheral vision
One shot , one kill
28 February 2014, 17:14
WhitworthThat's exactly right. You should keep both eyes open.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
28 February 2014, 19:38
crabbies3I have a leupold delta point on a custom 1911 10mm its a great sight but very touchy to adjust and the sight has to be removed to replace the battery. I have a c-mor STS on a fusion custom 1911 45 its much easier to adjust and battery can be replaced without removing the sight. I had to send 2 leupolds back for circuit replacement . I also have the ultra dot mounted on a BFR 500 JRH I like it more then the other type red dots but its a hair to big to mount on the 1911 for my use . tks KEN
28 February 2014, 19:41
crabbies3quote:
Originally posted by crabbies3:
I have a leupold delta point on a custom 1911 10mm its a great sight but very touchy to adjust and the sight has to be removed to replace the battery. I have a c-mor RTS on a fusion custom 1911 45 its much easier to adjust and battery can be replaced without removing the sight. I had to send 2 leupolds back for circuit replacement . I also have the ultra dot mounted on a BFR 500 JRH Its easier to adjust then the other type red dots but its a hair to big to mount on the 1911 for my use . tks KEN
I'm experimenting with the Trijicon RMR sight on this newly obtained S&W 625-9 Mountain Gun in 45 colt. The mount was a bugger to find though everybody that carries it says they can backorder it from Trijicon. I called every Trijicon distributor I could find and 1/2 down the list found a guy in Spokane that had one sitting on his desk. I like the sight very much. The 12.9 moa triangle reticle gives a VERY precise aiming point at the top of the triangle. As to the ability of the sight to stand up to fierce recoil; I have the predecessor to the RMR, the Reddot, and it has stood the test of time on my older 4-5/8" RMBH in 45 Colt shooting very stout 335 gr loads. The original 6 yr old batteries are still glowing brightly. The RMR is the dual illumination model; no electronics to fail. Instead it uses ambient light collected through the top mounted "plastic" light collector. In addition it uses tritium for darker times. Trijicon suggested this model for heavy recoiling handguns. Even if they hadn't, this is the model I would have chosen due to the triangular reticle. I can just never seem to get decent grouping with a round dot reticle; unlike many here who do fine with the round dot.
This picture does not give a good representation of the reticle. To my 55 yr old yes, it's bigger in real life.
I will soon mount it on my RNMBH Bisley in 45 Colt. Amerigunusa.com makes a mount for it for $150.
Alan
08 March 2014, 18:37
RandominatorI like the JPoint reflex sights. I've had one on a 510 GNR for some time and it has held up well. I like the easy target acquisition and large field of view.
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27 March 2014, 10:02
Ackley Improved UserJust as a follow-up. Got a Ultradot and put it on my 454 Casull. Go'na shoot tomorrow will let you know how it goes. AIU
27 March 2014, 10:03
Ackley Improved UserDo you have a recommendation for the 500 S&W- got one. AIU
27 March 2014, 15:29
WhitworthUltradot........
If heavy recoil is on the menu, they are hard to beat.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
27 March 2014, 20:53
juanpozziYes it would improve your target aquisition in low ligth conditions ,they are very usefull for running shots too ,i used several aimpoints and trijicons in a poland forests boars hunting with great result . Trijicon RMR are hard to beat .
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29 March 2014, 22:05
Larry SellersHave a Burris Fastfire III coming in a couple of days. It's going on my 9.3 x 74R double rifle first. If all goes well it will make a trip to Mozambique in September. After that it will get a workout on a handgun or two. I know some folks using this Fastfire on 470 Nitro doubles with no problem, so expect good results. It's small, super light, adjustable dot brightness, auto dot adjust as well.
Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS
29 March 2014, 22:49
hunteratheartquote:
Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Have a Burris Fastfire III coming in a couple of days. It's going on my 9.3 x 74R double rifle first. If all goes well it will make a trip to Mozambique in September. After that it will get a workout on a handgun or two. I know some folks using this Fastfire on 470 Nitro doubles with no problem, so expect good results. It's small, super light, adjustable dot brightness, auto dot adjust as well.
Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS
I'm using the Burris Fastfire III on my 500 Nitro so recoil on a handgun should not be an issue.
DRSS
Sabatti 450\400 NE
Merkel 140-2 500 NE
30 March 2014, 08:31
WhitworthI would say that a heavily recoiling revolver will turn an optic to scrap in shorter order than a rifle. Your talking about three pounds versus 12 or more. That has been the case in my experience.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
30 March 2014, 17:22
hunteratheartquote:
Originally posted by Whitworth:
I would say that a heavily recoiling revolver will turn an optic to scrap in shorter order than a rifle. Your talking about three pounds versus 12 or more. That has been the case in my experience.
Weight is a factor but the 500 NE is also generating almost twice the recoil energy of the 500 S&W and over twice that of the 454.
DRSS
Sabatti 450\400 NE
Merkel 140-2 500 NE
30 March 2014, 19:30
WhitworthHowever, the .500 Smith is packaged in 4 1/2-lbs of revolver. Not really all that representative. A 3-lb .454 will recoil more quickly and violently than a 12-lb rifle. There's a lot less mass to move and the .454 is a 65,000 psi round. You need to come down south and I'll introduce you to some very hard to shoot revolvers.
I had an X-frame. Even with 700 grain loads it wasn't bad. The big NEs push more than they snap.You also have the benefit of having the rifle firmly pressed against your shoulder, greatly limiting movement.
"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP
If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.
Semper Fidelis
"Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time"
30 March 2014, 19:35
jwp475quote:
Originally posted by hunteratheart:
quote:
Originally posted by Whitworth:
I would say that a heavily recoiling revolver will turn an optic to scrap in shorter order than a rifle. Your talking about three pounds versus 12 or more. That has been the case in my experience.
Weight is a factor but the 500 NE is also generating almost twice the recoil energy of the 500 S&W and over twice that of the 454.
Shoot a fully charged 454 factory load and get back to us.
_____________________________________________________
A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill
30 March 2014, 21:29
jwp475quote:
Originally posted by hunteratheart:
quote:
Originally posted by Whitworth:
I would say that a heavily recoiling revolver will turn an optic to scrap in shorter order than a rifle. Your talking about three pounds versus 12 or more. That has been the case in my experience.
Weight is a factor but the 500 NE is also generating almost twice the recoil energy of the 500 S&W and over twice that of the 454.
A hard kicking handgun like a 475L built on a Ruger will kill a lot of scopes that stand up on heavy rifles.
_____________________________________________________
A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
- Winston Churchill
14 April 2014, 06:42
bmashI have used an EOTech and a Trijicon RMR on my freedom arms 454 casull with no function issues. The cross bar that mounts the base was bent on the EOTech but no functionality issue.
14 April 2014, 06:43
bmashAnd I highly recommend the RMR - both eyes open and light weight. The EOTech was really too large.
28 April 2014, 08:10
Palladin8I had a Burris Fast FireII mounted on my 1911 10mm for quite awhile. I took it off only because I didn't like the auto shut off feature and missed a shot on a coyote because the dot had shut off. It withstood several hundred full power rounds with the slide slamming back and forth. No problems at all with keeping zeroed. It would have been nice if it didn't keep turning off while hiking though.
03 May 2014, 08:28
Ske1eter30mm UltraDot.
