This has probably already been discussed but just wondered what everyone's opinion is on hardcast vs jacketed at 460 velocity on buffalo. I plan to try it out.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
This has probably already been discussed but just wondered what everyone's opinion is on hardcast vs jacketed at 460 velocity on buffalo. I plan to try it out.

Are you going to use both?

On big game like bison, heavy-for-caliber hardcast all the way. I wouldn't drive them too fast either so you don't destroy the nose of the bullet which will decrease its ability to penetrate. JMHO.

Personally, I'd get a good quality rope so you wouldn't lose your boat anchor.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Personally, I'd get a good quality rope so you wouldn't lose your boat anchor.

Hard cast would be my pick.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Personally, I'd get a good quality rope so you wouldn't lose your boat anchor.

Wow that was real helpful...

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
This has probably already been discussed but just wondered what everyone's opinion is on hardcast vs jacketed at 460 velocity on buffalo. I plan to try it out.

I good 300 gr. hard cast bullet will work just fine. No need to go to heavy.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
This has probably already been discussed but just wondered what everyone's opinion is on hardcast vs jacketed at 460 velocity on buffalo. I plan to try it out.

I good 300 gr. hard cast bullet will work just fine. No need to go to heavy.

I'd go 360 at more than 1400 FPS and the 360 grainer is not too big

JWP why a 360 gr. I have shot 300 and 370 gr. in my 460 Mag, I got just as much penetration with the 300 gr. as I did with the 370 gr. and with less felt recoil.

You shoot a Buffalo with a 300 gr. hard cast bullet at 1400 fps, you will shoot right through the buffalo. So what is the advantage of the extra 60 gr. of lead? If you go through the animal, what more penetration do you need?

More energy...lol

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
JWP why a 360 gr. I have shot 300 and 370 gr. in my 460 Mag, I got just as much penetration with the 300 gr. as I did with the 370 gr. and with less felt recoil.

You shoot a Buffalo with a 300 gr. hard cast bullet at 1400 fps, you will shoot right through the buffalo. So what is the advantage of the extra 60 gr. of lead? If you go through the animal, what more penetration do you need?

More energy...lol

The 300 grain will shoot through a 1000 pound Buff on a broadside shot. The 360 WLFN will shot through a much bigger one and the 360 WLFN has noticably more visual impact.
I do not believe that one should run them over 1400 FPS and at that level are a bit lower the recoil is not bad IME and opinion. I believe that a 360 at 1200 to 1400 FPS is about as good as a 45 is going to be on the realy big stuff

My understanding of the 460 S&W is it's niche is filled by using the 200 grain bullets and making a .460 swift in order to achieve the "majic" ballistics. These revolvers are fairly heavy and once one gets into the 360 grain bullets between 1,000 to 1,200 fps range; this is something I can do with my Casull or a good five shot .45 Colt, and in a more packable package.

So chill out Alex. If I'm not fully understanding the .460's role in the grand scheme of things; I'll be happy to listen.

MS Hitman,

Yes the 460 Mag was designed for the 200 gr. bullet for a true 200 yard handgun. But using the 460 Mag with heavier bullets extends the range of the heavier bullet as well. The reason people increase the velocity is for down range, longer distance shooting.

Sure the S&W 460 Mag was not designed as a "normal" pistol range gun, but that does not mean it can't be used as one.

As far a packablity, who cares , unless you are going to pack it all day. A lot of the handgun hunters I have seen, really don't hike around all day with there guns. A lot of them go from there house to there land, or from there car to a field stand. Are there more packable guns out there, sure there is. If someone wants to carry all day they can make a choice as to what they want to carry. I have a lot of handguns to choose from for my hunting. Just like there are others that have more than just one handgun.

I could sit here all day and try to make an argument for the S&W 460 Mag, but if you have your mind made up, why should I bother. If you are not smart enough to make an informed decision yourself, why should I waste my time trying to convince you otherwise?

As for me chilling out, I am not the one that made a worthless post about a question a person asked in all sincerity.

The reason I asked is because I want to take advantage of the increased velocity and I'm worried that a cast bullet won't be able to do that. What about the Barnes 'buster'? Could it take advantage of the increased velocity.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
The reason I asked is because I want to take advantage of the increased velocity and I'm worried that a cast bullet won't be able to do that. What about the Barnes 'buster'? Could it take advantage of the increased velocity.

Call Barnes and ask them. Many bullets inluding jackted should not be pushed that fast out of a revolver.
Amazes me how many think that speed is the way to go in a revolver

I chose a 440 gr, hardcast from my 500 S&W to take my Cape Buff in Mozambique a few years ago. Better choice on thick skinned game than the JHP. I would suggest the heavier bullet from the 460 S&W, but understand the 460 was not developed for buffalo class dangerous game. Try to get your shot into him at 30-50 yards, place it well and be prepared to fire follow-up shots. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
The reason I asked is because I want to take advantage of the increased velocity and I'm worried that a cast bullet won't be able to do that. What about the Barnes 'buster'? Could it take advantage of the increased velocity.

And what advantage would that increase in velocity hold? Heavy hardcast at moderate velocity will work well. Just make sure your load is accurate and you will be good to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
The reason I asked is because I want to take advantage of the increased velocity and I'm worried that a cast bullet won't be able to do that. What about the Barnes 'buster'? Could it take advantage of the increased velocity.

No need for the Barnes Busters, unless you want to shoot them. You can smoke them out fast as well, Barnes will give you load data for then when you call them. I was pushing my 300 gr. hard cast around 1870 to 1900 fps. Made a great 150 yards gun.

I could hit a 4 inch clay target consistently at 150 yards with it. We also recovered some bullets in the hard sand bank, Bullet held together well. We also shot it at 25 yards also into a sandy embankment and recovered the bullets intact.

When we dug out the bullets they were easy to find. The sand in the embankment was set, but where the bullet went the sand was dry and powdery, real neat. We dug about 10 inches into the embankment and that is where we found the bullets.Just make sure your bullets are not to hard or to soft. Keep them around 20 to 22 BHN. I use gas checks on mine.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
The reason I asked is because I want to take advantage of the increased velocity and I'm worried that a cast bullet won't be able to do that. What about the Barnes 'buster'? Could it take advantage of the increased velocity.

Call Barnes and ask them. Many bullets inluding jackted should not be pushed that fast out of a revolver.
Amazes me how many think that speed is the way to go in a revolver

If your shooing longer distances it is. But other than that, it is not.

Redhawk,

As you pointed out, there are many options for handgun hunters when making their choices for a handgun with which to hunt. I am one of those hunters who may travel a long distance during the course of the day, so yes packability is important to me.

As for being closed minded on the subject, hardly. I stated what is my understanding of the cartridge's original design and from my experience; it does not fill any important niche. Any silhouette shooter can explain changing sight settings to you with regards to shooting targets at varying distances; use the windage and elevation screws found on most adjustable sights. Otherwise, just get out an practice with varying amounts of holdover or holding the front sight higher than the rear for distances farther than the revolver is zeroed for. The extra velocity gains you are touting (to praise highly) are not enough to provide any meaningful difference in practical applications. Those of us who were using the Supermag cartridges properly were loading to the same velocities as the shorter cartridges for lower pressures. Besides, anyone with a modicum (a small amount) of experience knows the lighter weight bullets lose velocity quicker than heavier weight bullets.

So pack your machismo (overly assertive or exaggerated masculinity) back in the closet. It's okay if you like the .460 & .500 S&W cartridges. Just don't get bent out of shape if we all don't think the same way you do.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Redhawk,
So pack your machismo (overly assertive or exaggerated masculinity) back in the closet. It's okay if you like the .460 & .500 S&W cartridges. Just don't get bent out of shape if we all don't think the same way you do.

I really don't give a shit if you care or not, but your post was not helpful to the poster one bit. It has nothing to do with your stupid statement about "machismo". If you are going to be a Moderator, at least stick to the topic and answer the person without your sarcasm. That was and is my point all along.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Redhawk,
So pack your machismo (overly assertive or exaggerated masculinity) back in the closet. It's okay if you like the .460 & .500 S&W cartridges. Just don't get bent out of shape if we all don't think the same way you do.

I really don't give a shit if you care or not, but your post was not helpful to the poster one bit. It has nothing to do with your stupid statement about "machismo". If you are going to be a Moderator, at least stick to the topic and answer the person without your sarcasm. That was and is my point all along.

How does this post answer the OP question?
You sure like to tread on dangerous ground...

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
This has probably already been discussed but just wondered what everyone's opinion is on hardcast vs jacketed at 460 velocity on buffalo. I plan to try it out.

Back to your original question, on an animal as big as a buffalo if you do not want to reload, just get a Buffalo Bore factory load, with a heavy cast bullet.

Something 300gr to 350gr would be my pick.

What you need on a big animal is the penetration of a heavier bulletvs the higher velocity of a lighter bullet, IMHO of course

I would not hesitate to hunt a Buffalo with a 44 Mag, as long as I had a 300 to 320gr hard cast bullet.

With the 460 you could go wither way. You would probably want a gas check bullet if you are using lead to keep leading in the bore to a minimum. The jacketed flat point gives good penetration as well, and you might get a little more velocity. Most jacketed hollow point bullets in .454 are designed to open at colt or casull velocities, and most loadings will reflect this. The only 460 specific HP I am aware of is the Barnes 275 gr, which is probably the best choice if you want a little more zip and an expandable. In the land of california, with the lead bullet ban, the 460 and Barnes might be the best choice as the barnes in lesser calibers tend to open up and not penetrate.

As for the rest of the squabble, it is the one thing that makes AR hard to bear. Its one thing to disagree, its another to get nasty every time someone disagrees with you. Maybe we should take a moment of pause and make nice. We are all brothers in kind.

John

quote:

the barnes in lesser calibers tend to open up and not penetrate.

The realitive light wieght of only 275 grains for Buffalo is the number 1 reason for any penetration that is lacking IMHO and experience

Sorry this turned into a pissing contest between Redhauke and Misman. I hope both will refrain from future posts on my behalf. I think I have my answer - either a good gas checked hardcast or a jacketed solid. I'll try the Barnes 'Buster' - if they shoot, I'll go with them. Otherwise I'll look for a gascheck cast in the 325-350 gr range. For those that answered concerning their experience with 45LC and 454 - If I wanted to hunt with those I would take one of several I own or just exercise the flexibility of the 460 and shoot them in the 460. Nope, what I wanted I bought, a 460 S&W capable of 50 yd shot on buffalo and 150 - 200 yd shots on plains game.

Your .45 Colt will comfortably make a 50 yard shot on Bison..... MS Hitman is the moderator of this forum -- you know, the sheriff so to speak.......

That Barnes Buster has a really small meplat so you would probably be served better by a hardcast bullet of LFN or WLN or WFN design. Keep us posted!

Pancho, to you I apologize. But I have had several years of actual experience shooting the S&W 460 Mag. I have shot bullets from 200 gr. to 535 gr. just for fun.

I have found the 300 gr, hard cast a great weight from 25 yards to 150 yards. You can't go wrong with a good hard cast bullet with a gas check. Also try a few different weights, and see which one gives you the best accuracy, I also had good success with some WFN 325 gr. hard cast in my S&W 460 Mag.
I loaded some 260, 300 and 325 gr., and my point of impact at 100 yards was within a 1/2 inch of each other.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
MS Hitman is the moderator of this forum -- you know, the sheriff so to speak.......

Most of the time it feels like mail ninja.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
MS Hitman is the moderator of this forum -- you know, the sheriff so to speak.......

Most of the time it feels like mail ninja.

Apprehending shoplifting teens......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
MS Hitman is the moderator of this forum -- you know, the sheriff so to speak.......

Most of the time it feels like mail ninja.

Apprehending shoplifting teens......

He said Mail Ninja

No, dealing with cross and irritating emails and posts.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
No, dealing with cross and irritating emails and posts.

And I thought you meant mall ninja......

Im thinking 38 Special!!!

Just a play on words and a bit of humor. Hope it isn't lost.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Just a play on words and a bit of humor. Hope it isn't lost.

On some perhaps.......

Should I give another try for my 454 on buffalo - it would be Frontier 390 gr FMJ.
You can reload after a hit - if you find it

i've used buffalo bore 300grain hardcasts at the 1525 fps but the longer barelled casull is around 1600 fps, they hold together well at that velocity, go north to south in the buff and haven't had one stopped by bone, i would agree the best load is the 360 grain from bb b/c of the larger meplat and not the weight. the 300 had penetration to spare and seen skipping down the field a hundred yards downfield after a north to south shot. punched out both shoulders on one and the bullet was seen skipping downfield by the guide. anyway, i love the barnes loads, lots of impact, a diameter typically over an inch and NOOOOOOOO penetration probs. for any high dollar hunts on large animals its all barnes and punch bullets for me. hardcast and jhp for deer and the like. good choice on the 460......the most versatile big bore pistol in existence.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:good choice on the 460......the most versatile big bore pistol in existence.

Well at least one of the biggest.......and loudest........

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:good choice on the 460......the most versatile big bore pistol in existence.

Well at least one of the biggest.......and loudest........

Packs like a small rifle, made like a revolver, and loudest... Yep that's versitile I guess...