Swift A-frames in 30-06

09 July 2002, 09:38

<BC hunter>

HI folks,
I recently bought some 180gr Sift A-frames for reloading in 30-06. I know they are a reportedly tough bullet. My concern is, the velocitys I have been getting from using other 180gr bullets {Nosler Bal Tip} have been averaging 2550fps, 10' from muzzel. Being that the Swift may take a little more velocity to properly expand at longer ranges, I am hoping to find a load that would get my velocitys up to around the 2700fps range. I have been using RL-22, and IMR 4064 powders at close to the max. with CCI-200 primers. I think I may have reached the plateau, for these powders velocity wise, and would only increse pressure's by loading bigger charges.
Can anyone suggest a powder that is known to better velocitys, for a 180gr bullet in an 30-06?
Also what do you think of using a magnum rifle primer, can this help?
Thanks Bill

09 July 2002, 01:12

<JHook>

Bill I consider the A-frame a fine tool but like all tools it has its place and time. I assume your working up an elk or moose load ; I agree with your choice of Bullets , and if it were me I'd probably find me some of the slow Vivah powders, tho you should get max results with the two powders your useing now.

Have you chronoed these yet ?...............J

09 July 2002, 01:14

ricciardelli

IMR-4350 and WLR primers

09 July 2002, 01:36

<toto>

I don't know what barrel length or what load you are using, but I get over 2800' per sec. with r22, 180nos.bt in my Sako. 24" barrel. I haven't loaded the partition, but would expect to get the same or possibly a little more. fws

09 July 2002, 03:11

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by ricciardelli:
IMR-4350 and WLR primers

I agree at least partly with this advice. IMR 4064 is a wonderful powder for 150 gr. and lighter bullets in the 30-06, but it is too fast burning for achieving max velocity with 180 gr. bullets.

Try IMR 4831 or Hodgdon 4350, or even Hodgdon 4831. (IMR 4350 and H 4350 are sometimes treated as if they are interchangeable, but that's not exactly correct. H4350 tends to be a bit slower burning, and it usually gives better accuracy than IMR 4350.) Unless you have a slow barrel, you should be able to achieve velocities of 2800 f.p.s. safely with 180 gr. bullets in a good bolt action 30-06 with a barrel of at least 22 inches.

[ 07-08-2002, 18:48: Message edited by: LE270 ]

09 July 2002, 05:59

GeorgeS

Bill,

I have used the 180gr Swift A-Frames in my .30-06 for years (it is a FLAWLESS performer in Africa). I don't know where you got the impression that it requires a lot of velocity to expand; it opens up very readily, even on small targets (I've shot several 12lb.-15lb. jackals with this bullet and they expand violently, yet they hold together to drive through all sorts of larger game).

I use IMR4831 and IMR4350 with the 180s SAFs.

You may just have a slow barrel. Don't worry about it too much. Unless you plan on regularly shooting beyond 300yds., the lower velocity won't affect your trajectory too much.

George

09 July 2002, 18:47

<BC hunter>

Hi fellows, thanks for the advice, and ideas.
To answer a few of the questions, in your replys.
I have a 22" barrel, the loads I chronyed were with the Nosler Bal tip, using the IMR4064 and Rl22. I have not loaded any of the Swifts yet until I could get a bit more load data. Swift still does not have a on-line loading manual, or data available for thier bullets. I just heard recently that they have now produced a loading manual, but have not yet been able to find one locally. As far as having a slow barrel, I have found some factory Federal Premiums, with the 180gr Nosler Partition, chronyed at 2675fps fairly consistently. What speed should one expect?

Since reading a post on another handloading site, of a fellow who loaded some Swift Sciroccos, and had pressure problems well before the maximum, I am hesitiant to just load up some without more data.

The reason I felt that the Swifts were a little slower to expand at lower velocitys, was because of a bullet chart that I have. It shows excellent expansion, and penetration with the Swifts, and next to no weight loss. The pictures show the condition of the 180gr. .308 caliber bullets after being retrieved. The expansion seemed to drop off considerably at 1900fps and below. It appeared that at the slower velocitys, the bullet would have a tendency to "pencil". What was impressive with this bullet is the lack of break up at the higher velocitys, with the high end of 3100fps.
One tough bullet! It should be fine for any moose or elk, or grizzly, I may run into.
Thanks again for the ideas!
Bill

[ 07-09-2002, 09:57: Message edited by: Bill S ]

10 July 2002, 03:37

GeorgeS

Bill,
I remember that chart. It was a fold-out in one of the gun rags. The writer used test media not flesh; the bullets work even better on game.

Also, assuming 2700fps MV, velocity would not drop below 2000fps until after you got past 300yds.

George

[ 07-09-2002, 18:39: Message edited by: GeorgeS ]

10 July 2002, 05:05

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Bill S:
As far as having a slow barrel, I have found some factory Federal Premiums, with the 180gr Nosler Partition, chronyed at 2675fps fairly consistently. What speed should one expect?

I've never chronographed Federal Premium factory loads, so I can't answer your question. But I do know that factory 30-06 loads tend to be conservatively loaded, because of all the different types and conditions of 30-06 rifles out there in which such loads might be used. If you have a good bolt action rifle, you should be able to get -- safely! -- at least 100 f.p.s. greater velocity with your handloads than what you will get with factory loads.

[ 07-09-2002, 20:06: Message edited by: LE270 ]

10 July 2002, 10:22

downwindtracker2

Bill,I used 61.3gr of N-560 fired by a CCI200 to push a 180gr SST to 2740fps,both factory 22" barreled rifles.That's a book max with 3.302OAL.This load is always under 1.5MOA,both rifles .I think N-560 is a bit faster than R-22,don't use R-22,so can't say for sure.good luck on your quest.

10 July 2002, 19:40

<BC hunter>

quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Bill,
Also, assuming 2700fps MV, velocity would not drop below 2000fps until after you got past 300yds.

George

George < that magic 2700fps velocity is what I would like to attain! I would be quite happy with this speed, as it will give me the downrange speed I need, to keep the A-frames mushrooming properly. And if a swamp donkey or a grizzly happens to walk up under my nose, I know the A-frames will hold togeather at the higher velocity.
Believe me I have had very good success with the Nosler Bal tip, at the lower speeds, but all shots have been minimum 150 yds. My fear and reason for going with the A-frames, is that I may encounter a grizzly, or a moose up close. The nosler Bal tip's have been known to fail {ie; fragment} at higher velocity, close in shots. Hopefully, trying the different powders, as suggested, may get my speeds up.
What about the magnum primers, I have heard that they act as if you have loaded another grain or more of powder, when used?

11 July 2002, 02:20

HenryC470

Midway (www.midwayusa.com) is selling Swift's Reloading Manual #1 on their web site. The book is described as having data for all the A-Frame and Scirocco (sp?) bullets.

I don't have the Swift manual, but I do like having several sources on hand when working on a new load. Usually, one source (e. g. bullet mfgr.) will use different primers and/or cases than another source (e. g. powder mfgr.). Also, with several bullet makers' manuals around (unfortunately the kind you have to buy; powder makers' manuals are free), you can see a consensus emerge about what powder gives the best performance with a given bullet weight.

H. C.