This is probably going to sound like a dumb question to all of you old hands. I've only been reloading a short time and the quality and depth of the knowledge on this forum,is to say the least, a little intimidating.

Most of my handloads are dedicated to a single rifle. If I were loading for several rifles of the same caliber I wouldn't even be asking about this. If I back my die off the shellholder about 1/2 a turn it appears to only work the neck of the cartridge. Is this really what is happening? These are previously fired cases and I don't see the need to fully resize them if they're going back in the same rifles. Will this method work in lieu of buying a die that neck sizes only? I'm using RCBS and Redding dies.

------------------
"Don't let so much reality into your life that there's no room left for dreaming."

I know that some reloading manuals (Speer being one) say you can do this. However you can get problems as a full length die so adjusted also partly sizes the sides of the case. The brass has to go soemwhere so it pushes the shoulder forward.

If you intend to neck size often, then get neck sizing dies. These do not contact the case sides.

If you neck size only a few times & discard the cases then probably not going to be a problem.

Regards,
JohnT

Think about what you spent on the gun. What you spend on ammo, gasoline to go shoot, time involved in loading, reading about it, fiddling around . . .

Then drop $20 and go buy a neck sizing die. You'll be happy with the results. No need to lubricate the case wall with a neck die. That's worth the price of the die right there!

A neck sizer is the way to go, but you can also remove the expander and size and adjust the die down until the case will chamber easily in the firearm you are loading for. Once set, replace the expander/decapper/stem and do your resizing. There really is nothing wrong with FL resizing, but sometimes better accuracy is achieved when only neck sizing is done. Eventually, especially is using hot/max loads you will have to FL resize. Neck sizing just doesn't work the brass as much. JMHO.

I concur with all the above, but spend a little more and get a Redding bushing neck sizer.

(BIG SECRET)As long as you stay within a cartridge family, i.e., 17 rem, 223 rem, or 243 Win, 7mm-08, 308 Win, or 25-06, 30-06, 338-06, and SOME of the magnums all you have to do is order the bushing for the sizing you want then swap when you change calibers. Each cartridge family that uses the same datum line for headspacing can be swapped around. Check a good loading manual and see. Been doing it for years with Wilson sizers, now I will be doing it with Redding sizers.

When you really get into reloading you will save a ton of money on pieces and parts.

I don't have any neck sizing dies and I have been reloading for a long time. what I do is set my die to full length resize, then I back the die out of the press far enough to put a nickle or dime on each side of the die between the lock ring and the top of the press. I have never had a problem doing this. Every so often, when it gets hard to chamber the round or I am building hunting ammo, I take the coins out and fl resize.
Works for me.

Plainview,
Not mentioned, but important is the question of body taper of the case. If you are considering the .300 H&H or .30-30 Win the neck is largely sized before the body is affected. For the Weatherby or other improved cases, sizing works the whole length of the case, extruding it initially, then compressing it again at the end of the stroke.
Partial sizing lengthens untapered cases, eating up headspace. This can be useful if you have a "long" chamber.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

Plainview: Sounds like you have a chamber/cartridge combination that works just fine with a full length die backed-off. With a couple of exceptions, most of my two dozen or rifles also work fine that way also.

You're doing it just right -- keep it up.

Here is something to think about when your thinking about neck sizing with a backed of FL die.

If you don't run the shell holder up solidly against the bottom of the die you get a VARIANCE in the datum point on the case due to the slop in the press linkage and the hardness of the case brass. In other words the case headspace changes with each case.

Here is how I found this out.

I just bought an EJS Kwick case trimmer to use to speed up the trimming operation on the hundreds of 223 cases I end up with at the end of a season of gopher gettin'.

The Kwick trimmer uses the shoulder of the case as the point to stop the cutting action. Once the cutter is set to cut the COAL you want all you have to do is chuck it in a drill and stuff cases in it until it stops cutting, toss them in a pile and chamfer when you want.

I resized 20 IMI cases using a Rockchucker press and Hornady New Dimension FL 223 dies and trimmed them to 1.75" on a Wilson trimmer with micrometer adjustment screw. I had adjusted the FL die for a 0.004" shoulder set back, or so I thought.

I measured each case and they were all 1.75", set the Kwick trimmer to cut 0.002 then started trimming. I trimmed 5 cases and noticed that each case was trimming more or less which seemed a little odd so I measured each one and found a difference of 0.004" between the COAL's. Something was definitely WRONG. RATZ, SH--,RATSH--

I started checking my proceedure, the cutting tools, my caliper and couldn't find anything wrong.

Then I broke out my Sinclair SS Bullet Comparator (SSSBC) and measured the cases in the #25 hole. The cases had a 0.004" variance on the datum point. The only thing that could have caused this was a problem in the sizing operation.

Gathering up another 10 cases, I resized 5, measured with the SSSBC and found a 0.005" variance this time. I started scratching my head at this point. I grabbed a LEE 223 FL die and the same thing happened.

By this time I was calling Hornady and Lee dies just what I thought of them and their mothers AND fathers and ploting how I could get my revenge.

Just to be fair, I snatched up my RCBS, high dollar die which I knew would be better and why didn't I use it in the first place.

Yep, I knew it, the resized cases came out all with the same datum point. So much for cheap dies. But wait, there was something different about the way the press handle was working.

OY, YEZZZ, now I understand. The first two dies were set to partially resize and the handle went awaaay down and the RCBS die was set with all the slop taken out of the ram and linkage and the shell holder positively stopped against the bottom of the die and the handle stopped at the halfway point of the stroke.

This is the MAIN PROBLEM with using a backed of FL die to neck or partially resize a case. The sizing is controlled by the hardness of the brass not the base of the die against the shell holder.

I went back and resized the original, messed up 15 cases, measured them and the datum points were all the same. I ran them through the Kwick trimmer and the COAL's were all the same. I reset both the Lee and Hornady FL dies to take out all the slop and contact hard against the shell holder, did 10 cases each and all the measurment for each brand of die were the same. I also ran them on my case spinner and couldn't find any case problem with any of the three die brands that would cause me not to buy or use them.

I did find out another tidbit. Each brand of die had a different datum point on the shoulder of the case. Not enough to cause a problem but something to think about.

I have used this neck sizing procedure for 40 years, ever since I first read about using a nickle between the shell holder and die base in the instructions for the very first set of RCBS dies I ever owned and never though about it until I started getting more accuracy conscious. I also have neck sizing dies for many of my calibers which I use all the time except for doing new cases or once fired cases.

With the advent of new measuring instruments, i.e. Stoney headspace gauges and comparators, dial indicators, case and bullet spinners and the secrets of the stool sitters out in the open, I now have something else to play with during the snowy months. Maybe this also explains why I could never seem to get some of my guns to shoot straight. I will be checking the dies and resetting them correctly, THEN checking out a few loads to see if it matters.

This is just something to think about and to experiment with if you have an inkling to do so. If not, whatever rocks your boat have fun with it.

Oh, one other thing. When you square up your die hard against the shell holder you also resize the case straighter and with less runout. People are still arguing about this on other parts of this site.

Hey, enjoy the sport and all you can learn. Take what's good and let it churn,
Leave the garbage and just let it burn.
Lifes to short, so take a big turn.

Makatak

I have never owned a neck sizing die..All of mine are full length and I just back off to where it chambers easily and that's where I reload at because that fits my chambers...Sometimes I neck size my varmint rifles by backing off until I get a proper tension on the bullet and that works for me..I have made it a point not to get caught up in technical theory, the blain of the gunnut set. I found out years ago it is only an endeavor to impress ones self...

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Yeah Ray, it seems we spend a lot of time looking for cats that ain't lost.

Oh, yesss, Ray. I found you VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!!!!! What ever cat you can find, go for it. I too learned at a very early age there are more than one way to skin a mouse.

MAKATAK,

Thanks for the post. I found it very helpful and I am grateful.

Hanz

MAKATAK: Interesting. I would think, however, that the problem is not that the dies are backed-off, per se, but rather that the press is inconsistent in reaching top dead center.

I have a press that does not come to a stop, but rather breaks over center and retracts the shell from the die slightly at the top of the stroke. In addition to being a bit disconcerting, this condition may result in the inconsistency you have found with partial sizing.

My belief is that if the press perfoms consistently, that it is of no consequence whether the die is down to the shell holder or backed off from it. A quick fix would be to place a washer of the right thickness and diameter over the shell after placing it in the shell holder.

That is correct about the press breaking over TDC. My rockchucker does that when the die just touches the shell holder, which means there is play somewhere in the linkage. To eliminate all the play and at lease one variable, I run the dies down to where the ram has a definite stop point and no break-over. Did the same thing with a way old Herters press back in the day, and it had a bunch of play in it's pins.

Full length resize with the die hitting the shell holder. I find neck sizing dies to be less accurate than fl sizing. The best i have found is the Redding type -s full length bushing die.Bushing dies are the only dies that work the brass less. The brass body will last a lot longer then the neck area.

I was at a recent BR match and most of the shooters were FL resizing. They just bump the shoulders back every time a thousands. They feel the rounds are more consistent and more accurate. I just got a 223 and was talked into getting the Redding, FL bushing die. I will try this method and see what I get.

Frank,This type of die (Redding Bushing) works best if u neck turn your brass and do not use the expander button. Leave a little of the neck unsized, this will center the round in the middle of the chamber , making it very accurate. 243winxb

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:

I was at a recent BR match and most of the shooters were FL resizing. They just bump the shoulders back every time a thousands. They feel the rounds are more consistent and more accurate. I just got a 223 and was talked into getting the Redding, FL bushing die. I will try this method and see what I get.

---

In my opinion you CANNOT neck size with a full length die. You CAN stop the die short of the shell holder but you will probably rework about 65-95% of the case area.

Ray is probably right--it really doesn't matter. He does the "minimum", has a quite tight brass chamber tolerance.

Unless using the new bushing dies you probably will have worse concentricity with a neck die.

All these "fine tuned" adjustments may show an improvement in a match grade rifle but not in an off the shelve average hunting machine.