I have 2lb of old powder that I acquired from Alex Hoyer years ago.Some may remember him from Lewistown,PA.Was instrumental in the development of the 6.5/300 Weatherby Wright Hoyer.Powder is sealed in one pound cans marked 331X.Anyone know anything about it?

The only thing I'd use powder I didn't purchase new would be for fertilizer.

quote:

Originally posted by britz:
The only thing I'd use powder I didn't purchase new would be for fertilizer.

What you would use it for was not the question!

If YOU are not able to identify that power positively 100% !?. Use it to make gopher bombs or some other useful purpose .

1 I don't like the term OLD POWDER , How Old ?.
2 If one doesn't know WHAT it is , is it then worth the risk of your weapon or LIFE ?.

2 lb. powder is cheap and isn't worth any risk !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I'd email the question to Hodgdons. If they don't know... Probably sold it, original to public. Container is probably collectable. If the powder doesn't smell bad (acid like vinegar) ... Without a source like Hodgdons giving me a burn range, I would use it as fertilizer. (High in nitrogen, surprise!) If bad smelling, use as fertilizer. If sealed and not rusting, look for a crazy collector to buy it. Might have some historical signifigance. ?? luck.

You could sell it to a handloader who can use any powder, without recipes.

I got some pounds of Herter's 164 with no data, and I have been using it up in loads that I make up.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
You could sell it to a handloader who can use any powder, without recipes.

I got some pounds of Herter's 164 with no data, and I have been using it up in loads that I make up.

What???

quote:

Originally posted by britz:

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
I got some pounds of Herter's 164 with no data, and I have been using it up in loads that I make up.

What???

If a person really knows what he is doing and understands the hazards involved there really is little danger.

When Data Powder 2200 came on the scene many of us had to develope our own scensible loading perameters. The fly sheet data that came out was not adequate. Much of the surplus powders I test fall into the same need.

Now some of the other stuff that tnekkcc tests might also make you say more than "what". roger

I would not endorse " Loading without published data " form a reliable source . It may be true some of us know how and use guide lines while doing so !.

I'm reminded of a Trap wobbles & skeet shooting group I USED to be associated with !. Key word USED to be !.

Seems as though a lot of us pot shooters swapped load receipt's from time to time . How fast was this how much shot powder Etc. You all know what I'm talking about !.

Seems as though one fellow didn't understand or didn't know , worse was he didn't ask to have it clarified !.

Well the box action kind of held together but the chamber didn't on that Expensive DBL !.
He was HURT lost a finger part of his cheek bone and an eye that didn't move any more !.

Several friends got subpoena's from his LAWYER !. The club was sued along with individuals , it got DOWN RIGHT UGLY !. With a capital U.

I learned while working in the field of explosives NOT to say to MUCH !. I never entered into that conversation about reloading .

I LEARNED way before Never to give any advise other than CHECK A LOADING MANUAL . If I do list any loads I USE , they are well within book limits !. If I don't list them , well what you don't know can't HURT YOU !.

Besides bullet Powder as well as cartridge manufactures have TEST BARRELS , let them blow up for you !.


Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I may own 50 reloading manuals, but I don't use any of them any more.

I make up my own loads for the 62 cartridges I load.

I think Roger Bartsche is in the same boat. He can take some old military bulk powder and work up loads that are perfect for him.

It is not for everyone.

Not everyone can climb Mt Everest.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
It is not for everyone.

Not everyone can climb Mt Everest.

Nice touch ! roger

Tnekcc and Roger.

For at least 40 years every kind of powder which has come my way at an attractive price has been put to a good shooting use. I WILL NOT let a litigious bunch of a-holes and their lawyers manage/control my life for me. They can only do so if one lets them.

A thinking person who takes the time to learn how to safely reload does not have to become dependant on "cookbooks" (i.e., published opinions) of others.

Sorry I haven't any knowledge of the particular powder inquired about. You might try calling Eric Lufty of Thunderbird Cartridge in Phoenix, Arizona. I would not expect him to give you any data, but would be surprised if he cannot cross reference that powder name with something more widely known.

Start low work up look for pressure signs.

About the only powder I haven't found a very useful load for is some 30-06 blank powder. I could use it for some low power .38 target loads. 1.5 gr gives me 600 fps with a 148 gr wadcutter. 1.7 grs gives me high pressure signs. It is a very fast powder lots more the bullseye.

Interesting thread.
As has been stated several times many reloaders with common sense and experiance can load safely without or inspite of published reloading data.
But as Dr.K's tale points out. You must be more carefull what information you share and with whom you share it. So I don't share data that isn't within industry tested ranges.
As an aside Dr.K's story is why I will not reload for "friends". Lawyers can and will mess things up if they feel they can make a buck.

muck

Well,I have had some interesting responses to my question,Most make pretty good sense and I appreciate them.I have made a few inquirys that may get the answer but have not had a reply yet.From going back to some of my data from 25 + yrs ago I found it seems to fall into the catagory of old surplus 5010 and used in overbore magnum cases.

And to muck,you can pick your friends but you can't pick your relatives.I don't load for either. ;]

Well, I see that there is an N 331, Vihtavuori powder that seems to have a burning rate somewhere in the slow pistol/fast rifle powder burning rate range. But I have no idea if the stuff you have is in any way similar to this stuff! How big are the granules? Is it a ball or any extruded powder? Post a close-up picture of some of it.

What you say about it being like some of the slow MG powders makes a lot of sense, seeing where you got it! I am sure Hoyer used some very slow powders for his 1,000-yard cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Start low work up look for pressure signs.

About the only powder I haven't found a very useful load for is some 30-06 blank powder. I could use it for some low power .38 target loads. 1.5 gr gives me 600 fps with a 148 gr wadcutter. 1.7 grs gives me high pressure signs. It is a very fast powder lots more the bullseye.

The idea of "starting low and working up" is probably OK for 90% of powders, particularly if you are using them in "ordinary" cartridges.

However, that same approach can be a recipe for total disaster if one is using an especially slow powder and /or large-capacity, small-bore cartridges such as the .240 Gibbs or a similar ones. (Even the .25/'06 falls in this category.) There are some slow powders, both for rifle and handgun loading, for which the makers caution "use these charges EXACTLY AS GIVEN. DO NOT reduce these charges." That is very good advice!! Should you start with one of this type of powder, and "start low and work up slowly", it is possible to get excessive pressures at lower charges, which will disappear when the charge is INCREASED. That is, if a ruinous detonation has not happened before you get up to the safe charge level! I certainly would NOT TRY reduced loads with this particular powder, as it is likely to be an especially slow one, if Hoyer was using it in one of his large-capacity, small bore loads like the 6.5/.300WWH cartridge.

Using "blank-fire" smokeless powder of any kind with a BULLET in front of it is inviting disaster!! The stuff is designed and made to give significant pressures and report with nothing but a paper or plastic wad restraining it. You may have gotten away with using 1 or 1.5 grains of it in a cartridge with a bullet in front of it, but that is exactly what you did - got away with it!! Others who have done similar things weren't as fortunate!

This has not been shot for 20yrs.It was built by Howard Wolfe of Mifflinburg,PA.6mm/257 Weatherby.The reamer came from a Don Galbraith who was a close friend of Hoyers.I remember getting powder from Galbraith but never used it.If I can find the my old loading data for the 6mm/257,that may be what it was intended for.