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Winchester 209's

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11 March 2002, 15:48
jim81147
Winchester 209's
I would like to substitute CCI 209's in place of the winchesters and was wondering if these two we equal primers? Has anyone had experience doing this? Thanks.
11 March 2002, 18:06
ricciardelli
A 209 primer is a 209 primer...the only one that isn't is the CCI-209M which is a "magnum" primer.

They all work just fine...but...you may find that after reloading the CCI 209 primers several times that the primer pocket in your shotshell may have become enlarged. (At least in WW AA shotshells it does.)

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12 March 2002, 06:29
<eldeguello>
A 209 is a 209 - SIZE-WISE ONLY. There are differences in the brisance and "heat" of different brand shotshell primers, to the extent that some manuals warn you to use their data AS WRITTEN, AND NOT TO SUBSTITUE EITHER WADS OR PRIMERS, in the interests of safety. I have never had a problem this way, but there must be a reason for warnings like this!!
12 March 2002, 08:32
ricciardelli
BS...

Since 1968 I have been using the same loads except for primers in 12 gauge. The hulls have always been Winchester AA, the wads have always been Winchester AA, the shot has always been Lawrence 7-1/2, powder has been 18.5 grains of Red Dot, and the primers have been the cheapest I could find in lots of 10,000. I have used CCI, Winchester, Western, Fiocchi, Federal and Remington 209 primers...and the different primers have made NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever.

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12 March 2002, 09:47
LE270
quote:
Originally posted by ricciardelli:
the primers have been the cheapest I could find in lots of 10,000. I have used CCI, Winchester, Western, Fiocchi, Federal and Remington 209 primers...and the different primers have made NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever.

I suspect that if you did chronograph tests of velocity and sophisticated pressure tests, you'd find that there are small but measurable differences between the loads with the diffrent primers. But in terms of practical shooting, I agree with you that the different primers will make no difference at all, especially if you are loading relatively mild target loads.

If you were to load a maximum (magnum) load with a heavy charge of powder and shot, using a mild primer, you might find that you get a load that is too hot if you switch to a "hot" primer. But I doubt it. Shotshell loads seem to be very forgiving, and shotshell pressures are relatively low, compared with centerfire rifle rounds.

12 March 2002, 11:42
grizz
Switching primers in shotgun loads is like playing russian roulette. As far as dangerous pressures in the common target load mentioned, I doubt it. But, as far as velocity and patterns go, I'm sure you could see a difference. Just the aging of a shell as the crimp gets softer can make a big difference. Changing anything in a load without testing it is a bad idea.

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12 March 2002, 12:01
JerryO
quote:
Originally posted by ricciardelli:
BS...

I have used CCI, Winchester, Western, Fiocchi, Federal and Remington 209 primers...and the different primers have made NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever.

Yeah, me too.

Whoops, I did have to return the CCI (around 1980) as the caps were steel and wouldn't fire in my remington 3200.

And then I have never used the newer Fed 209A which is said to be hotter than the CCImag.

And .........


JerryO