Varget Powder

03 June 2001, 16:12

LE270

Varget Powder

I'm interested in the experiences of other people with Varget powder. I can't say I've tried or tested it extensively, but from what I've found so far, it doesn't seem to offer any advantages over IMR 4064 -- in fact, IMR 4064 works better for me.

I have a 6mm Remington that has always been persnickety about what powder will work well in it. So far, the best powder I've found for it is IMR 4064. (My best load is 41 gr. of IMR 4064, 70 gr. Sierra match bullet, Federal 210 primer, Remington or Winchester brass. I've also tried the 90 gr. Berger moly coated bullet in this rifle, with good results.) When I tried Varget, it gave poorer accuracy than the 4064.

At one point, I tried to develop reduced loads for my .300 Weatherby that would give 30/06 velocities, with good accuracy. Varget gave the reduced velocity and good accuracy I sought, but left cases very dirty on the outside -- more so than I've ever seen before. IMR 3031, 4064, and 4320 did not produce such dirty cases, and they also gave the reduced velociites with good accuracy I was trying to get.

I tried Varget in a 375 H&H. With 270 gr bullets (Speer boattails) it gave OK results -- about the same accuracy and velocities I got with IMR 4064. With 300 gr bullets, it gave poor velocities at what Hodgdon lists as max loads -- the velocities were in the 2450 f.p.s. range.

All in all, I've not yet discovered any situation or load in which Varget seemed to me to offer any advantage over other powders, and it was sometimes worse. So, for now, I've given up on it.

What results have others of you had with this powder?

03 June 2001, 18:25

Bill Leeper

I have used Varget in the 35 whelen with good results, the 30/40 Krag with good results and the 30/06 with poor results. On the whole it is a decent medium powder which like all others works well in some rifles and not so well in others. Regards, Bill.

03 June 2001, 19:35

<sure-shot>

I load with Varget for 7mm08 and sometimes 223rem. It gives excellent accurracy, is very temp. stable. I tried it in a 30/06, was disappointed in the velocity, accuracy was so-so. Never had any cleaning problems. sure-shot

03 June 2001, 19:41

Bob338

The biggest advantage to Varget is its tolerance for temperature variances. Developing loads in the heat of summer with some of the others, particularly 4064, is difficult. I too have great accuracy with 4064 but that goes out the window in some applications with significant temperature changes. Not so with Varget which seems to produce very consistent accuracy and velocity in radical temperature extremes. It may not produce the very best accuracy but in a hunting gun that stability and consistency can be a significant advantage. Bob

04 June 2001, 01:53

<Pumba>

LE270,

I have used Varget in a 308 Winchester with 168 grain Sierra match bullets. Very good results in an M-14. Less than 0.65 inch groups in one rifle and less than 0.45 inch groups in a second rifle. I also have had good results with Varget in a 458 Lott and 500 grain bullets.

For your 6mm Remington and 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, I would recommend that you give Hodgdon H-414 a try. My experience with Winchester cases and Federal 210M primers shows that you should be able to achieve less than 0.50 inch accuracy with velocities over 3,600 fps out of a 26 inch barrel.

Good Hunting !

04 June 2001, 07:56

denton

Varget is my favorite powder for the .308. I also use it to produce a very uniform velocity 2750 fps .223 round.

I have conducted some tests of Hodgdon's claimed temperature stability, and in all cases tested so far, found that their temperature stability claim is ABSOLUTE BUNK. In one case, the temperature coefficient for Hodgdon powder was twice that of another brand. Hodgdon simply stonewalls when I tell them they have a problem and are publishing false claims.

Last winter, I started another set of tests when we had some clear, cold weather. In the next few weeks, I'll shoot the same series again, when it's hot. This test covers several different brands and types of powder in 30-06, .308, 6.5x55, and .223 loads. Those results will be published here, with statistical confidence intervals on the results. I'm trying to find out if there ARE some cases where Hodgdon powders exhibit the claimed stability.

BTW, just to make sure that the chronograph is giving accurate results, I always put a few .223 military rounds across it as part of the test. The mil rounds are quite consistent and predictable, and ensure that the chrono readings are believable.

04 June 2001, 10:58

<Sako308>

My two cents on Varget is favorable due to the accuracy and ease of use. I have had excellent results with 69 gr Sierra's in a Colt 24" tube .223 and also very excellent accuracy and velocities in a Rem VSSF .308 Win. All and all no need to throw away the other powders, but worth having some and trying it in your own rifle. I was originally drawn to it based upon the insensitive aspects regarding temperature. No I have not persoanlly tested this aspect beyond a few hunting rounds at variations of about 70 degrees F. The results were quite good on those few rounds of .308. I have more recently heard that R15 is perhaps superior in many respects. Just ask the US government for their most recent test results. Thanks for bearing with me.

[This message has been edited by Sako308 (edited 06-04-2001).]

04 June 2001, 12:50

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Pumba:
LE270,
For your 6mm Remington and 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, I would recommend that you give Hodgdon H-414 a try. My experience with Winchester cases and Federal 210M primers shows that you should be able to achieve less than 0.50 inch accuracy with velocities over 3,600 fps out of a 26 inch barrel.
Good Hunting !

Pumba,

I tried H-414 in it, with poor results. I use 70 gr Sierra match bullets, not Nosler Ballistic Tips. Going by load charts in the Lyman reloading manual, it seemed that H-414 should give good results. But my tests didn't bear that out, at least in my rifle.

The only other power that gave me as good results as IMR 4064 in the 6mm in terms of accuracy is H-380. But it also gave me erratic ignition, with several millisecond hangfires sometimes. I have not tried H-335 or IMR 4895 in this rife.

I did try Varget in a .223 -- the results in terms of accuracy were not as good as those from 748 in this rifle. (A Remington 700 stainless laminated-stock Varmint Special.)

[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 06-04-2001).]

04 June 2001, 13:17

<JoeM>

Hello,
I tried Varget in my 22-250, and it was Ok, but not as good as Benchmark. It just depends on what your gun likes. You just can not "forcefeed" rifles components that they do not like. Listen to your rifle.

------------------
Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

04 June 2001, 15:00

<Don G>

I ran into some pretty widely varying pressure signs in Varget -- at hotter temperatures. It also seems very sensitive to bullet retention forces. I don't use it any more.

I wound up using IMR4895 across the course, and IMR4064 at 1000 yards in my 308 after trying everything under the sun.

Joe is right about listening to your rifle. The proof is in the shooting -- those rifles can't read!

Don

11 June 2001, 12:34

<PowderBurns>

I've been loading Varget and H335 in .223 Rem. working up accuracy loads for informal bench-rest shooting Rem. 700 PSS. Sierra Match 69 gr. BTHP.

Varget fills the case more and provides lower working pressures. But it doesn't meter evenly like H335. Both produce accurate results. Can't tell if one is more accurate than the other.

Looking at H-BL-C2 because it produces higher velocities at lower pressures.

------------------
PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loading Forum:

www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=powderburns

11 June 2001, 17:04

ol blue

I've had excellent results in .308 Win. I previously was using 4064, but I would work up an accurate load in the summer, then when hunting season came around, (and cold weather), accuracy would go out the window. With Varget, no such problem. Higher velocities with no pressure signs was another advantage. Of course your milage may vary....ol blue

12 June 2001, 04:20

sambubba

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I have used Varget in the 35 whelen with good results, the 30/40 Krag with good results and the 30/06 with poor results. On the whole it is a decent medium powder which like all others works well in some rifles and not so well in others. Regards, Bill.

Bill,what Varget loads did you use in your Whelen?
Sambubba

12 June 2001, 07:19

Stonecreek

LE270:

Your load of 4064 behind a 70 grain bullet in your 6mm Remington sounds pretty conservative. I've had good luck in my .244 (same case, slower twist) with the surplus 4831 we discussed earlier with bullets as light as 65 grains.

I would suggest 4350, VV 160, or Reloader 19 as a good fit for your 6mm and 70 grain bullets.

12 June 2001, 11:40

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Your load of 4064 behind a 70 grain bullet in your 6mm Remington sounds pretty conservative. I've had good luck in my .244 (same case, slower twist) with the surplus 4831 we discussed earlier with bullets as light as 65 grains.
I would suggest 4350, VV 160, or Reloader 19 as a good fit for your 6mm and 70 grain bullets.

I tried 4350 (H and IMR), 4831 (H and IMR), H-414, H-380, Varget, Benchmark, and possibly a few others in this rifle. I didn't try RL 19. None of the other powders I tried gave me the accuracy I get with IMR4064. I agree that my load is a mild one, but I do see signs of the beginning of primer flattening with it, so I don't want to go hotter. I also get splitting of case necks after a number of reloadings.

[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 06-12-2001).]