Re: .338-06 A-Square?

26 September 2004, 10:08

Art may be an A--hole I know that. but he did standardize the round and make it an over the counter item. the same as many before him with other rounds. Now you can buy Brass and or loaded ammo ready to shoot/ load. and correctly headstamped
As a matter of fact Art dosent even solely own or control the A-Square company, the major intreast belongs to Jista LLC. and the Brass and bullett production is at the highest quality ever. Just keep your eyes open in the next year or so and I belive you'll see a lot of mail order Reloading supply houses carrying A-Square brass and ammo.
Just my thoughts on the subject

26 September 2004, 10:23

carcano91

Quote:

Art may be an A--hole I know that. but he did standardize the round and make it an over the counter item. the same as many before him with other rounds.

No.
I think he really didn't. To my knowledge it was Werner Reb who had the cartridge standardized and CIP approved, in 1983/84, as the 8,5x63, and it was AA who weaseled behind.

But if I have gotten my dates wrongly, then I'll be glad to correct that. You tell me when AA did submit "his" cartridge to SAAMI.

Regards,
Carcano

26 September 2004, 10:15

<eldeguello>

Good for you, Soundman! Except for .005" in bullet diameter, it is indeed O'Neil, Keith & Hopkins's cartridge!!!

27 September 2004, 04:15

LONGEYES

I may also be wrong on the dates too but SAAMI did accept his submition of the round was along about the same time he submited the 7mmSTW.
And as I said before Art nolonger has much to do with the day to day operations of A-Square.

"Hunt On"
Tom

27 September 2004, 04:45

carcano91

I have looked it up in A-Square's reloading handbook p. 444). The cartridge was only SAAMIzed in 1996 - 12 years after its CIP standardization by Werner Reb. So much for originality

.

Carcano

27 September 2004, 17:35

moonova

I really dont give a sheite who submitted, approved whatever...Its a nice round.

18 October 2004, 05:39

CTI1USNRET

eldeguello, I'm with you. I've been looking for a non-belted elk round. Based on availability of suitable bullets and the ballistics I want, I came up with 338-06. The only factory chambering I've heard of is Weatherby. I'd rather have a Rem, Win, or Savage.

29 September 2004, 01:43

<eldeguello>

Of course, it is difficult to claim credit for being "the first with everything new" (a' la George Leonard Herter)!! However, it seems to me that Elmer Keith and his buddies D. Hopkins and C. O'Neil had a very similar round in the 1940's called the .333 OKH, which, although it remained a wildcat, was just the '06 opened up to take .333 bullets. So who was the very first to stick a .338" bullet into the .333 OKH neck? Not Art Alphin!!

I'll bet it was done in the days of the .33 WCF!!

18 October 2004, 07:51

SlowHand

Wait a minute. There is a difference between the standard wildcat 338-06 and the saami approved 338-06 a-square.

The 338-06 a-square has a 34 degree shoulder.

check the cartidge dimensions here:

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartspec.html

29 September 2004, 09:05

LONGEYES

It really isnt a point of who invented the idea (Art dosent clame to have invented it) its who took the time and money to get it through SAAMI which by the way aint cheap.
Im really not sticking up for AA. but hay lets face it he did spend the time and money to get it there?

"Hunt On"
Tom

29 September 2004, 14:09

carcano91

Oh, dear. Read my reply and *try* to understand.

And you'll see WHO really spent time and money on a _real_, legally recognized standardization procedure.

Hint: not AA.

Carcanp

29 September 2004, 17:03

Wstrnhuntr

Quote:

Dan is correct and I'll add Art Alphin of A-Square has no regard for histroy and blemished the 338-06 with his shoddy Co's name...

Thats no worse than lame brain Layne Simpson necking up and down the 8mm Rem Mag and saying to the world "I designed this cartridge" like some kind of strutting peacock.

Color me unimpressed.

30 September 2004, 03:21

<eldeguello>

My question really is, "WHY DON'T THE OTHER MANUFACTURERS CHAMBER A FEW OF THEIR RIFLES FOR IT? I think it would sell pretty well.

03 October 2004, 06:14

carcano91

Quote:

My question really is, "WHY DON'T THE OTHER MANUFACTURERS CHAMBER A FEW OF THEIR RIFLES FOR IT? I think it would sell pretty well.

Blaser produced a commercial trial run of R 93 exchange barrels chambered for the 8,5x63 a few years ago.

Carcano

03 October 2004, 09:06

Bwana-be

Quote:

Thats no worse than lame brain Layne Simpson necking up and down the 8mm Rem Mag and saying to the world "I designed this cartridge" like some kind of strutting peacock. Color me unimpressed.

Geez, maybe I missed the strutting part, but seems to me, if you neck a case to a new caliber, and do the load work and field testing to legitimize it, then it's yours. After all, that's all the 270, 280, 269, 243, or a handfull of other rounds were.
And Chatfiled-Taylor "made" a pretty nice round by necking the 338 up to 416. If Simpson is an ass, that's somewhat beside the point. He is the designer of at least a few rounds. And not sure about the 7mm, but the 358 STA he did design, but altering the taper and shoulder of the 8mm, so it's not as much as sticking a bulelt in and running around shouting "look what I did!"

About Art Alphin, I haven't heard this about him being an asshole. Maybe I missed it. The story I heard was that he got f&%#ed by the ATF and had to shut down, thereby screwing a lot of customers in the process. That sort of situation can really change how the public perceives you, and is one of the worst parts of the gov't putting a bead on you. I'm not going to make any assertions about his character without hearing much more about him. He also has a fairly long list of friends behind him, which says something.

An intersting sidebar: according to Cartridges of the World, Art A necked the 308 down to 6.5mm, and submitted it to SAAMI, was rejected, and the mere months later saw Remington's 260 accepted. I'd love to know how all that worked.