I tested .22-250 loads today....

13 April 2002, 15:23

LongDistanceOperator

If my stock screws or scope mounts are at fault, I'll be pretty upset. It's a custom Remington. Trued action, 27" Lilja, B&L 6-24x40 with custom fine crosshair by Bill Ackermann in Kelbly rings.

I rrrrrrrrrrrreally hope I just haven't found the right combo. Only tried 5 combos today. I'll try the Sierras with about 10 different powder charges on my next day off.

I guess I should have given more info in the original post. Someone asked me to post results in a previous thread.

13 April 2002, 16:25

Bubster

LDO,
I had the same problem with the 52 gr. Berger MEF in my Weatherby SVM. No matter what I did, I just could not find the right powder combination or the right seating depth. I have since found a true one hole combination with 41.2 gr. of VarGet behind a 40 gr. Hornady V-Max lit by CCI BR 2 primer. The rifle also liked 39.5 gr. of VarGet with the same components. My O.A.L was 2.380. I'm not bashing the Bergers, I think they are fine bullets and use them in my .17, .22 PPC, and my 6-284. I just could not get them to group in either of my .22-250's.

13 April 2002, 16:51

LongDistanceOperator

Bubster-
41 grains! Wow! Maybe I just need more of it. Regardless, I'm going with the MKs next. I have 100 prepped cases and I'm loading up every one of them. I really didn't like the "feel" of loading the flat-base bullets. They just sat on top of the necks.

Sierra recommends 4064 with the MK so I'll pick up some of that tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by LongDistanceOperator (edited 04-13-2002).]

14 April 2002, 00:11

SDS

A few people have posted lately that they have had very unsatisfactory accuracy with Berger bullets. There is some speculation that the new owners (Walt Berger sold the company) are making crummy bullets.

14 April 2002, 01:32

Bubster

LDO,
Yes, 41.2 gr. of VarGet is smokin, but I did contact a tech guy at Hodgdon. He stated that If I was using Moly coated bullets and worked up carefully, I should not have a problem. I did work up from 36.5 gr. using the 40 gr. V-Max. Believe it or not, I've seen higher pressure signs from Hornady 50 gr. V-Max factory ammo. For what it's worth, two of my shooting partners have had excellent results with H-380 and 52 gr. Sierra MK's. I believe the charge was 38.2 gr's. of H-380. I tried their load but got just fair accuracy. My Weatherby SVM just loves VarGet.

14 April 2002, 11:42

<bearlake>

LONG DISTANCE
The 4064 is ok. Like others say the H-380 is a good powder and is a ball powder and flow's very,very good through your powder measurer. Witch means constiant powder load to load without checking every one. I have had good luck with the Siera 52gr match in boat tail and flat base. But if those do not groupe .5" or so you should try Hornadys A-Max bullets these are the best shoothin bullets in all my .22 .284 30cal guns and cost around the same at Siera match bullets. Winchester standard large rifle primers have done the best in my 22-250. Good luck!!!!!!!!!!

15 April 2002, 09:00

<BigBob>

LDO,
There could be many reasons for the poor accuracy. I'd start by checking all the screws. Including the scope base and ring screws. I'm using Varget in my .22-250 and couldn't be happier with it. I've turned the necks on my cases as well as recutting the primer pockets and flash holes interior. The cases were then culled by weight. My load is 36.5 grains of Varget, CCI BR2 primers, 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. By the way, Hodgdon shows the max charge of Varget to be 36.5 grains. In the rifles I tried Varget in, I've found they seem to like max load for the best accuracy. Velocity in my Rem. M-700 VLS is 3750 fps. SD=13.3 fps. The average of five five shot groups was .164" C/C. I'm useing the same scope you are. I'd suggest after checking the screws to be sure the bore is clean and then start over with test loads at the point that you stopped at. I hope that this is of some help. Good luck.

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BigBob

[This message has been edited by BigBob (edited 04-14-2002).]

15 April 2002, 01:11

<Dan in Wa>

Try some H4895. Works great in my .22/250 @3650fps. meters good, clean, works for me.

15 April 2002, 03:29

LongDistanceOperator

Guys-
Thanks for all the help. It's a custom barrel, but with a SAAMI chamber, so no need to neck turn. I did some other case prep though; deburr necks inside and out and uniform primer pockets. I'm waiting on my flash hole deburring tool to arrive.

I'll start at 34gr next time, using Varget and 4064. I am going to use the Sierra MKs. I just don't feel comfortable seating that flat-base bullet. I don't know if I'm damaging the bullet or neck while seating.

Thanks again, Lee

15 April 2002, 03:40

beemanbeme

Long, why not go to basics. Load up some 50gr bullets in front of 38grs of H380 and shoot them. That may not be the best combo for your rifle but with all the TLC you've put into the rifle, it should shoot well under an inch with that combo. If it doesn't, I think I'd be in touch with my smith.

15 April 2002, 04:57

sjf

Try H380 and H4895 with 52 Sierra HPBT Match, basic load of H380 is 38.0 grains, start with seating depth from 2.350 COL and work up in increments of .010. most 22-250's I have worked with prefer somewhere between 2.350 and 2.380, in fact most have prefered right at 2.350-2.360 for some reason they prefer a little jump into the rifling.

I have yet to shoot a 22-250 that would not should the 52 sierra HPBT match well.

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3-7-77

15 April 2002, 05:20

sonofagun

I's ust wondering (pardone' if its a dumb question) - LDO, did you have the gun built (in which case, yous should talk to da builder) or did yous ust buy it as is (second hand)in which case, yer on yer own?
Even in that case, I'd still want to know who built it - also what's the bore's condition and history?

15 April 2002, 19:20

<bearlake>

Sonofagun, yous mus be from da U-P of mitchigun a?

16 April 2002, 06:56

<.>

quote:
Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
Guys-
Thanks for all the help. It's a custom barrel, but with a SAAMI chamber, so no need to neck turn. I did some other case prep though; deburr necks inside and out and uniform primer pockets. I'm waiting on my flash hole deburring tool to arrive.
I'll start at 34gr next time, using Varget and 4064. I am going to use the Sierra MKs. I just don't feel comfortable seating that flat-base bullet. I don't know if I'm damaging the bullet or neck while seating.
Thanks again, Lee

Neck turning uniforms the neck wall and assures that the bullet is seating in the center of the bore. Neck wall variations will result in uneven release of the bullet AND split necks. Turning for a factory chamber can reduce your groups by 50%.

Neck tension is pretty crucial. When I turn (I'm new at this, but following Sinclair instructions) I run the necks on an oversize mandrel and then turn on the standard mandrel. This provides uniform neck tension at 0.002" (.223 Ackley Improved).

Flash hole deburring will help group size.

I'm going to assume nothing here and toss this out:

Brass needs to be uniform. All the same brand/lot. I keep track of the lots in terms of how they've been previously fired.

Sounds like maybe the Berger bullets are not sitting in the neck sufficient to provide a uniform release tension.

Varmint Al's discusses brass workup to death. Lots of links to look at too:

http://www.cctrap.com/~varmint/arelo.htm

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.223 Ackley Improved Wildcat Forum:
http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=223ackleyimproved

16 April 2002, 15:11

LongDistanceOperator

Guys-
Thanks again for helping. I'm not going to reload at the range, so I can only test a limited number of loads per day. (well, not TOO limited. I prepped 100pcs of brass. Yes, I started with more than 100.)

On my next trip, I'll try 4064 and Varget with 52gr Match Kings.

Sonofagun-
Yes, I had the gun built. Why didn't I just ask the builder? Hmmmmmm....good question. I suppose I like corresponding with other shooters better (getting more opinions). While I'm still stumbling around in the dark, so to speak, I don't want to say who built it. When I post pics of several 1-hole groups, I'll tell who the 'smith is.

Ghengis-
I don't really understand neck turning for a SAAMI chamber. While it may result in a more concentric neck O.D., it will also slightly reduce the O.D. It seems to me that this would let the neck sit a little bit lower in the chamber, thus making it more likely for the bullet to slam into the rifling unevenly. Mind you, I am new to this, so if I'm mistaken, please let me know.

Thanks, Lee

16 April 2002, 15:45

rogerinneb

LDO,

Don't wait too long before calling your 'smith. My experience is that if the gun doesn't shoot at least close to expectations with all the standard recipies, you can spend a LOOOOOOONG time trying to figure things out.

When I last had this problem, I gave the gun back to the builder and asked him to try load development just to make sure it wasn't something bizzare like a bum set of dies, etc. He couldn't get the gun to shoot either and he went back to work...hopefully you won't have to ship it half way around the world to try this....