Crimping 44 magnum revolver loads

28 November 2004, 17:47

Matt_G

For several years I have been loading 44 mag loads for a Contender. All that time I have been taper crimping those loads just to get a little better burn. Since I didn't have to worry about the bullets creeping out and locking the gun up, I figured a taper crimp was adequate. The main reason for going the taper crimp route was so I had a little leeway with case length.

Well, I now own a S&W Model 29 I'm going to load for.

Needless to say, bullets moving out under recoil and locking up the cylinder is a real possibility.

I own a seperate taper crimp die for the 44 but I don't have a second seat die in order to roll crimp in a seperate step without adjusting the die. (I refuse to seat and crimp in the same step.) I load on an RCBS Ammomaster and I hate to have to take out the seat die, adjust it, and put it in my single stage just to crimp.

Is a taper crimp sufficient for 44 mag loads in a revolver?

My gut feeling is that the answer is NO. I think that until I get a seperate roll crimp die (or a second seat die) to put in the fifth station I will just have to deal with the hassle. Perhaps a Lee crimp die?

I have never used one but I know many of you have good thing to say about those dies.

I want to get 2 complete sets of dies so I can load 44 special and magnum, without having to adjust the dies everytime I want to switch over.

So is my gut feeling right? Trim all the cases to the same length, and roll crimp them, or is a taper crimp sufficient?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

Edit: I forgot to mention I'm loading cast bullets. Lyman 429421's and RCBS 44-250's.

28 November 2004, 18:54

vapodog

Quote:

(I refuse to seat and crimp in the same step.)

Most progressive presses don't have lots of empty stations for specialty crimping tools.

I'm not sure why you choose to not seat and crimp at the same time.....I've done it since 1964 for the .44 mag wheel gun and with excellent success.

29 November 2004, 01:14

Crimp_me

I would buy a Redding profile crimp die, the Best period.

29 November 2004, 02:34

Rooster

Circumstances determine what kind of crimp I use in my 44's. I've got a 4" barreled Model 29 that I use 10grs. of Unique in which I consider a fairly mild load and as a result I use a light crimp. On the other hand I use a case full of 296 under a 300gr cast bullet that I use a heavy crimp in a 9" barreled SRH. This is to insure consistant ignition and to keep the bullets from jumping the crimp. JMO

29 November 2004, 10:11

billt

When it comes to crimping straight walled pistol calibers there is only 1 die I use, the Lee Factory Crimp Die. They are inexpensive, and you cannot buckle a case with them. Once you use one you will buy them for all your handgun, and rifle calibers. I did. The really nice thing about the straight walled pistol Factory Crimp Dies is they have a Carbide sizer ring that assures the loaded round will chamber in any gun. You simply cannot beat it. Bill T.

29 November 2004, 02:46

mete

Two things are necessary to provide proper ignition of slow burning powders and prevent bullet movement. A good crimp ,taper crimp is ok, too much crimp may effect accuracy. The case must also grip the bullet tightly.For example you may have an expander made for a lead .430 lead bullet , that may not grip a jacketed .429 bullet well enough.

29 November 2004, 02:50

DigitalDan

Matt, I'm with you regarding seat/crimp as separate operations. I don't use a progressive except for shotshells so I've never pondered the problem you face. FWIW, I have used a taper crimp for soft lead paper patch in both a 77/44 and Redhawk. In my sampling of two it worked fine, bullet weight 300 gr.,pure lead, your mileage may vary, etc. Load was 17.0 gr. Li'l Gun, 1500 fps+ from the rifle. I saw no evidence of OAL change in either gun and I consider the crimp I used to be moderate at best.

Just a guess on my part but I'd generally suggest a roll crimp for the .44 or other heavy recoil combos unless you are willing to explore your specific gun and load in that regard. I would NOT pass taper crimp ammo to a friend without evaluation for their gun. I used to crimp and seat as one operation for years too, then one day I tried it separately. Never went back afterwards...

29 November 2004, 04:41

jt1

I use the Redding profile crimp die for medium and heavy 44 loads, seating the bullet on station 3 of my Dillon 550, and crimping on station 4. I've never had a problem with bullet jump with the heavy loads, and a good crimp on the med loads reduces the velocity spread enough to be worthwhile, shrinking groups slightly. The profile crimp die applies a taper and roll crimp. Only downside is the case length needs to be fairly uniform. All cases within 0.005" of each other is my personal criteria.

John

29 November 2004, 06:58

Matt_G

Quote:

I'm not sure why you choose to not seat and crimp at the same time.....I've done it since 1964 for the .44 mag wheel gun and with excellent success.

Well, I tried it a few times when I started loading for my 45 ACP. Got to thinking on it one day, and it seemed to me that in that last bit of travel when the crimp is starting to be applied, the bullet is still being seated those last few thousandths of an inch. Just didn't seem to be a good idea.
So I decided to test it.
I loaded 100 rounds, 50 of them crimped/seated at the same time, and 50 crimped as a seperate operation.

Load was/is a Lyman 452460 cast from WW with 2% Tin added.
Sized .452 and lubed with Blue Angel. Starline brass, Fed. 150 primer and 3.8 grains of Bullseye. Taper crimped so the OD of the loaded round at the case mouth is .470".

The gun is a Colt 1991A1 that has had a lot of smith work done to it for Bullseye shooting. This gun can shoot much better than I can, even on my best days.

I'm lucky enough to belong to a range where I have access to a Ransom Rest.
Using the Ransom, I shot the above loads at 50 yards using the regulation targets. The loads crimped and seated in the same step would hold the 10 ring barely. IIRC, the average score for the 5, 10 shot strings was 100-3X with a shot or 2 just barely hitting the 10 ring. Very close to being 9's.
The 50 rounds seated and crimped seperately grouped much tighter with 1 string scoring a 100-8X, 3 strings scoring a 100-9X, and one string was a perfect 100-10X. Never seated and crimped in the same step again after seeing that.

Maybe I would get good results in the 44 as you have vapodog, but I'm just not comfortable doing it that way. <shrug>
Call it anal retentive or whatever, but there it is.

29 November 2004, 07:08

Matt_G

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm going to order a Redding profile crimp die for my 44 mag. I think I will use the taper crimp die I already have for my 44 special loads. It should be good for those lighter loads.

I hope every one is having a good holiday weekend.