how to flame anneal

23 July 2021, 05:02

hivelosity

how to flame anneal

I use the old tried and true method, heat the neck "only" in a dark room until I see a hint of orange, Then drop it in a pail of water to stop the annealing process??.
I have seen some video of annealing machines and they are heated to the point that they glow red and about a 1/4 inch past the shoulder? then they are air cooled. no need for water cooling.
If I were forming cases to another chambering I would anneal like that maybe???.
The comment is that they do not need to be dropped in water!
What has changed in the brass or annealing that they can make that statement.
I just cant wrap my head around that method especially after reloading for almost 40 years. What are you thoughts.
Dave

23 July 2021, 06:38

Gundog 64

Dave,
It is true that brass does not need to be dropped in water to "stop the annealing" process. Just let them air cool and you are good to go. There is a video out there somewhere filmed at the Lapua factory where they showed the cases being annealed several times through the case forming process. They did get them quite bright red.

23 July 2021, 09:30

rcraig

When I see the brass start to show color change I stop, I really don't think the brass needs to glow in the dark. Air cool. Have used this method for many years, works for me. YMMV.

23 July 2021, 10:50

Brian Canada

Thanks to all for this discussion as I am going to try some annealing. Brian

23 July 2021, 16:20

arkypete

Many years ago an old duffer in the Shenandoah valley let me in on his secret to annealing. He's hold the case by the base with his bare fingers over a bucket of water. When he felt the brass get warm he's let it fall in the bucket of water. Seems practical to me.

23 July 2021, 18:41

hivelosity

Thanks for the comments. When it comes to hardening and softening of cartridge brass, there are only 3 factors that affect hardness.
The amount of work done to the brass. The amount of heat (temperature) applied to the brass. The duration of time the brass remains at the elevated temperature...
So if you let the brass cool naturally over a period of time does it get softer? I don't know. I think The brass would have to get softer as long as heat is present ??? down to a temperature where it no longer matters.
any thoughts?

24 July 2021, 04:47

eagle27

It is the heat brought to the temperature of the colour change in brass, not dull red, cherry red or bright red, just colour change, that anneals brass. Quenching in water does not stop the annealing process or enhance it, it only stops heat moving to the rest of the case and also is a safety thing in that you do not have hot brass around on the bench to burn anything. If you are annealing one case at a time in your fingers or in a holder in a electric drill as I do to turn the case slowly in the flame to heat evenly, then what are you going to do with the cases as they are annealed? If not dropped in water to cool immediately they can be a hazard.

I have a wooden jig made up to hold my gas torch and drill with a steel heat sink holder held in the chuck to hold and turn each case. Can rattle through the annealing process in no time with cases evenly annealed around the neck and shoulder area.

25 July 2021, 17:35

Fury01

quote:
Originally posted by eagle27:
It is the heat brought to the temperature of the colour change in brass, not dull red, cherry red or bright red, just colour change, that anneals brass. Quenching in water does not stop the annealing process or enhance it, it only stops heat moving to the rest of the case and also is a safety thing in that you do not have hot brass around on the bench to burn anything. If you are annealing one case at a time in your fingers or in a holder in a electric drill as I do to turn the case slowly in the flame to heat evenly, then what are you going to do with the cases as they are annealed? If not dropped in water to cool immediately they can be a hazard.

I have a wooden jig made up to hold my gas torch and drill with a steel heat sink holder held in the chuck to hold and turn each case. Can rattle through the annealing process in no time with cases evenly annealed around the neck and shoulder area.

Yep. Same method I use. Fast easy and consistent. I count seconds in the flame. Different amounts for different sized cases.

29 July 2021, 18:09

snowman

I've been annealing cases for over 50 yrs using a torch and the proceedure that Norma recommended at the time. They recommended standing the cases in a small metal pan (cake pan) in rows with about 3/4 of an inch of water.The flame was to be directed on the neck area til it started to change colour and not hotter than just a dull glow. At that time a screwdriver is used to tip the case over into the water. process complete..The reasons they gave for this proceedure were 1/ the case head and primer pocket were to remain hard.Standing in water they would never be affected. By quickly quenching the cases that soften the necks using a minimum amout of heat. necks will become harder if allowed to cool slowly. I have never had a problem using this proceedure in over 50 yrs so no I am not interested in trying anything else