Re: Looking for advice re: bullets

02 June 2004, 07:31

For what it is worth, I tried the Midway Rem 210 JHP primarily as bore cleaners for my lead shooting. They work great for this. Just for fun I tried them in my Rem 788 44Mag rifle and darned if I didn't get some of the best groups ever. I don't think you can go wrong with these inexpensive bullets.

Good Luck!

davisjv

02 June 2004, 01:31

Hot Core

Quote:

... when I used any powder other than 2400 with a cast bullet with no gas check with real hot loads I got a lot of what I call lead smearing. It was lead melted into the barrel. That was hard stuff to get out. I also never got good accuracy when I had that lead smearing. ...

Hey Knobmtn, Not too many Deer with a 44Mag - less than about 40. Generally shots of opportunity when they were too close for the rifle. The bullet I've used the most is the 240gr Hornady XTP. Every Deer I've shot using that XTP has been either a drop-in-the-tracks kill or they only went 2-3 Deer lengths. I'm reluctant to say I "dislike" the way they work because of all the clean kills. But, I really prefer "Exits" and I just didn't get them with the XTPs I've used. They've all opened to between approximately 0.750"<=>0.925" which slows them enough so they can't Exit.

I did get an Exit with a few regular old 240gr Speer JFPs, but not enough shots taken to say they will always provide Exits with Lung shots. I loaded some 240gr Lead "Keith Style" Beanies and planned to use them(shoulder-to-shoulder), but swapped the 44Mag off. I've been looking closely at another one and I might just get it.

I do have a 444Mar and it will be similar to the 44Mag if I add a bit of yardage for velocity compensation. I'm planning to use the 270gr Speer Gold Dots in it, but it will be a few years before I have enough kills to be able to discuss their performance.

...

Concerning that "smearing", it sounds like Flame Cutting of the Bullet's Base to me. You might want to try cutting some Gas Checks from either a wax coated milk carton or orange juice carton and place them in the case between the Powder and Lead Bullet. I've even used styrofoam meat trays, but prefer the waxed carton.

Drill out the Primer Pocket in a "fired and nonResized" 44Mag case. Chamfer the inside of the Casemouth and use it as a "cutter". I use a rubber mallet and a board, then push the "Gas Checks" out through the Primer Pocket. They are just large enough(from the fired and nonResized case) that they will be a snug fit inside a "Resized Case". As you Seat the Bullet, the Gas Check will be pushed against the Powder on a full power load.

That should eliminate that source of Leading. I've always gotten by using just one, but some Elders I learned from used a couple. Just shoot one of them into water jugs or a dirt bank and that one bullet will be enough to tell you if the base was protected. The Base should look the same as before it was loaded. If not, use two Cut Gas Checks.

It sounds like a lot of trouble, but the cutting goes real fast. And adding one more step to the reloading is no big deal.

Good luck with them.

02 June 2004, 13:20

knobmtn

Hot Core:

Thanks for the bullet info.

Quote: "Concerning that "smearing", it sounds like Flame Cutting of the Bullet's Base to me."

I'm sure that's exactly what it was. But I never got it with 2400 on the bullets that I was using. When we were brainstorming some of my benchrest friends came up with the lower flame temp theory. With the performance I was getting out of those cast bullets in terms of accuracy (1/2 inch at 50 yds) and the speed that Elmer Keith's old load gives I never thought it was worth fooling much with those other powders.
Do you think those 245 gr cast bullets at those kind of velocities are any better than the jacketed ones for deer given the kind of shots that I remember you told me you take?

knobmtn

03 June 2004, 01:23

Hot Core

Quote:

... Do you think those 245 gr cast bullets at those kind of velocities are any better than the jacketed ones for deer given the kind of shots that I remember you told me you take? ...

Hey Knobmtn, Since I couldn't get those excellent Hornady XTPs to "Exit", I went to lung shots. Still no Exits, but fine kills. No core jacket separations and the young hunters in the groups were always interested in having an expanded bullet to show their buddies.

Went to the Speer JFPs and managed to get some Exits on lung shots. I'm reluctant to say I got an Exit on shoulder-to-shoulder shots with them. I doubt it, but just don't remember for sure.

Had time to think about it while in the trees and decided a Keith "style" lead Bullet with a Flat front would induce plenty of damage, create about a 1/2" hole and "probably" Exit. But, I really prefer to speak from experience and in this situation I have "none" with a Lead bullet in the 44Mag on Game. So anything concerning it is pure speculation.

Due to the extremely thick understory in the SC swamps and 4' tall beans where the foliage from adjacent rows completely eliminate being able to see your own feet, having an Exit is a major plus. Just not fun stomping along down a bean field trying to find a Deer that has fallen "between" the rows. Too many large snakes to make locating a hidden Deer a lot of fun.

The idea was to get nice size Exits on shoulder-to-shoulder shots. Once the Deer can't move it's front feet, it can't go far. And if it has a good size Exit, the chances are reduced that the Exit will become blocked by the innards.

If it is a Buck, there will be more meat available on the Neck than on the shoulders anyhow. And it seems to me that you get a lot more "blood-shot" meat with faster lower weight projectiles than you do with heavier slower ones.

So, I think the Lead Keith style bullet would work very well from a 44Mag, but can't say that from experience - yet!

...

I think I'll go start a thread concerning "Blood Shot Meat" on the Big Game Board and see what other folks have experienced.