I have gone ahead and ordered dies from CH and will have to pay for them next week. I am going halves with my mate who is also building a .585 Nyatti.

My question is if it is possible to do a 3" version I have been told that the 2.8" dies will accomadate this.

We are not concerned either way as these "commercially offered dies" represent good value $356.85 Aus and the power from a 3" version will not be needed ( we will download to duplicate .577 NE for our hunting purposes, full power loads will be for those times when we wish to involve ourselves in a sick version of extreme sports )

If it so happens these dies will work for a 3" version (as custom dies will be a lot dearer) and the Brnos 602 actions can take this without much extra work then we will go that way.

A second question would pressures be less with the 3" version? and what is the case capacity difference b/w the 2.8" and 3"version.

Thankyou PC

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PC,

If the extra length of .2" is in the case body then the extra capacity would be approx:

Shoulder diameter .650

Brass thickness .030??

If so, inner diamter would be a about .59"

That should amount to about an additional 14 grains of water.

If you are going to be loading around 577 ballistics either 2.8"or 3" version will require greatly reduced loads. The 3" version will just make things more difficult.

In other words any variation on the 2.8" version would be better if it was shorter. I just calculated that a .585 on a case with the capacity of a 460 Wby, would do 2350 with 750s at full pressure. The 500 A Square will do 2200 with this weight and full pressure. So that clearly illustrates that very reduced loads are required to do 2050 from the much bigger 585 Nyati case.

As to dies the answer to your question would be Yes and No.

Yes, you could assemble ammo.

But full length sizing would be a problem because if you drive the case fully into the die you will set the shoulder way back and have what amounts to the 2.8" version but with a neck .2" longer.

If you do not drive the case fully into the die, then the die will not make full contact with the case body.

So in summary, if you have the 3" version you have die problems and increase the difficulties with reduced loads.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike375 (edited 02-09-2002).]

I believe, but don't have chamber specs to back it up, that the 3" version uses the same body and "shoulder" and just has a longer neck. If that is the case, no pun intended, then the 2.8" and 3" can be loaded on the same dies with no problems.

I'd agree with Mike that the 2.8" is already too much of a good thing, and has plenty of case capacity for moderate pressure 577 NE performance.

I have just re-read the article that Mike posted up a few weeks ago (Seyfried .585 Article. And it states there the 3" version will fit in a 602 but the 2.8" version will fit in with less modification. I think I will just stick to the case length of these dies which is 2.85" (according to there die blueprints) as I had a returned e-mail from CH4 without backing off the shell holder I could get 2.90", but I am quite content now with 2.85".

Another Question the Bertram Brass is 3" with the Gibbs Rim. Do I trim to the length of the dies I am purchasing and then run them through the dies or do I run them through the dies and then trim?.

I will purchase the Forster .50 BMG trimmer and collett and have a pilot ground out as it only works out around $40.00 dearer than a trim and file die.

Regards PC

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[This message has been edited by PC (edited 02-09-2002).]

[This message has been edited by PC (edited 02-09-2002).]

I think you will find that the Bertram basic "stovepipe" brass is 3.25" long. I measured one a year ago while considering various sorts of foolishness. It would be possible, for example, to open up a .505 Gibbs chamber to something a little bit larger, like .505-.585 Nyati, even though the .505 Gibbs case is 3.150" long. Sure is fun being foolish....

PC,

I will depend on what diameter your pilot is.

Normally you trim after sizing because the case grows when you full length size. Also the pilot can be made without consideration of chamber dimensions around the neck.

Just make sure than when the chambering is done that specifying a 3" does not mean the gunsmith simply pushes the reamer in further.

If the specifications are as Paul says, then only the neck part of the chamber is cut longer.

I have a feeling Karl's first 3 incher was with a reamer pushed in further.

Mike

PC,

Just get CH4D to send you a file trim die as well as the 3 die set. With a hacksaw and a file you can cut those Bertram unformed cases into realy 585 nyati x 2.8" in short order. I think CH4D charges about US$65 for a 585 file trim die.

So 500 gr you think I would be better off getting the file trim die rather than the forster case trimmer set? I just thought it would be heaps less work, is it much work using a file and trim die?.

And would you run the Bertram unformed brass first through the file & trim die and then run them through the full length sizer??.

Once again thanks all for the help.

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PC,

I agree with 500grains. Get the trim die, a 32 tpi hacksaw blade, and a bastard file and make some cases. Trim die first works fine with me. Mine is RCBS. I'm sure the other company is fine too.

Good luck!

Good point by SDS too. The Bertram basic "stovepipe" brass is about 3.25" long. Use the trim die first. Then the full length sizing die.

Does the file and trim die do a sort of pre-forming job as well (is that why you guys are reccomending it), would it not be heaps more work than a trimmer?, or do file and trim dies do a better job?.

Regards PC.

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A file and trim die is really the best way to go. I just made up a couple of 585 2.8 inch dummy rounds for getting my action to feed. I used my little southbend lathe as a case trimmer with a homemade 585 pilot attached to a sharpened 4 blade cutter made from an old morse taper #3 wood lathe spike. The 50BMG forster case trimmer I have was too small to use on the Nyati. This system worked really well, but a trim die would work much easier.-Rob

Thankyou gentlemen I have ordrered and paid for a set of CH4 .585 Dies and one of there trim & file dies.

Things are moving along and I am pretty happy about begginning my first custom rifle.

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PC
Did you get my email?
How much did CH4 want for custom dies?
I bought the Lyman case trimer which uses the shell holder, but the cutter is only .590 diam. Also got Lyman 50 cal deburring tool was $49 from Peter just measured it and it should do upto .650 outside neck.