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Need some advice with load

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13 November 2011, 17:01
John Chalmers
Need some advice with load
Hi Folks I need some help with a load.

Got some troublesome Roe Deer to take care of while trying to keep the noise level down.

I can go down to 55grn bullet head (dont tell Kablue) in .243, my current powders are R19 and H4895. I use a reflex moderator (which certainly quietens the crack) on my usual 100grn Norma or 100grn Hornady Interlock, but is still a bit too loud.

Question is, do I go heavy bullet, light on powder or light bullet heavy on powder to achieve the best result. The range will be 50/75yds.(This is a legal cull just want to keep it quiet as possible,Can you help my limited knowledge on reloading,thanks.jc

ex: Hodgdon recipe: 55grn NOS BT 40.00/44.5grn
100grn SPR BT 31.00/33.00




13 November 2011, 17:43
hivelosity
subsonic 243???? I would not use a rifle powder due to the fact that you will have to reduce the load quiet a bit. light bullets may not stabilize.
a faster pistol powder may work like bluedot or tightgroup? I would be cautious about reduced loads in the 243.
Dave
13 November 2011, 18:27
Ghubert
From my experiments, from trying to quieten a moderated 30.06 down, is that light charges of a fast-ish burning powder are the way ahead in my rifle.

Running through QL I think I can see why because although one can't do anything about the crack of the supersonic projectile, the blast from the muzzle can be effectively tackled.

The reason seems to be that the lower the muzzle pressure, ie rather than maximum chamber pressure the pressure in the bore at the instant the bullet leaves the muzzle, and the volume of gas the moderator has to cope with, the better a job it does. This pressure seems to be much lower with faster burning powders and reduced loads whereof than with "optimal" for calibre powders.

For instance my rifle is still pretty loud with 60 grains of h4831 and 180 grain bullets but much quiter with 150 grain bullets pushed by 47 grains of H4895, about like a moderated 243 in fact. Smiler

In your .243 it think I would prefer to have a heavier bullet as they need smaller powder charges and try reduced loads with the H4895 until the case sooting gets too bad or the rifle is quiet enough. I understand that with this powder one may go as low as 60% of the maximum stated charge in the manual.

The resulting combo probably won't be deer legal for Scotland, but we all know how much that matters when the bullet is correctly placed I think. tu2
13 November 2011, 18:29
John Chalmers
hivelosity, Thanks for that, I would not use reduced loads,I probably asked it the wrong way, sorry.
To achieve the quietest report,is it best to load 55grn or 100grn bullets while staying within recommended powder loads for those bullets.jc




13 November 2011, 18:42
John Chalmers
quote:
Originally posted by Ghubert:
From my experiments, from trying to quieten a moderated 30.06 down, is that light charges of a fast-ish burning powder are the way ahead in my rifle.

Running through QL I think I can see why because although one can't do anything about the crack of the supersonic projectile, the blast from the muzzle can be effectively tackled.

The reason seems to be that the lower the muzzle pressure, ie rather than maximum chamber pressure the pressure in the bore at the instant the bullet leaves the muzzle, and the volume of gas the moderator has to cope with, the better a job it does. This pressure seems to be much lower with faster burning powders and reduced loads whereof than with "optimal" for calibre powders.

For instance my rifle is still pretty loud with 60 grains of h4831 and 180 grain bullets but much quiter with 150 grain bullets pushed by 47 grains of H4895, about like a moderated 243 in fact. Smiler

In your .243 it think I would prefer to have a heavier bullet as they need smaller powder charges and try reduced loads with the H4895 until the case sooting gets too bad or the rifle is quiet enough. I understand that with this powder one may go as low as 60% of the maximum stated charge in the manual.

The resulting combo probably won't be deer legal for Scotland, but we all know how much that matters when the bullet is correctly placed I think. tu2



Ghubert, dancing Thats what I ment, despite my poor communication Confused Once again, thank you.
Maybe in 10 years time I'll be able to give good advice instead of having to receive it all the time.jc




13 November 2011, 19:54
hivelosity
john, I think You ssaid it correct, I was just reading more into it as normal homer
13 November 2011, 20:14
Ghubert
No problem John.

I'm just a beginner myself but happened to have experimented in that direction; our small and rather densely populated Island eh? Big Grin

These are good forums so you'll be up and running in no time.

Best,

A
13 November 2011, 21:09
John Chalmers
quote:
Originally posted by Ghubert:
No problem John.

I'm just a beginner myself but happened to have experimented in that direction; our small and rather densely populated Island eh? Big Grin

These are good forums so you'll be up and running in no time.


You got it in one tu2

Best,

A





13 November 2011, 21:12
John Chalmers
quote:
Originally posted by hivelosity:
john, I think You ssaid it correct, I was just reading more into it as normal homer


hivelosity tu2




13 November 2011, 22:10
bartsche
Roll EyesThis is just information and not recommendation. The velocity of all bullets is right at 2200 fps. Per Sea Fire's data.
  • 12 grains Blue Dot 55 grain Hornady.
  • 14 grains Blue Dot 75 grain Hornady.
  • 16 grains Blue Dot 87 grain Hornady.
  • 17 grains Blue Dot 100 grain Hornady.
    From experience, the noise and recoil are greatly reduced.Having never killed any Roe deer I can only guess at the effectiveness of these loads.If the animal is small enough, and the bullet not too frangible at its velocity the 55 grainer might do the job. On the other hand if any of these bullets don't expand at these velocities than they may pencil right through. If you are an expert head shooter any of these loads should be adequate.
    If you want more of the .243 blue dot info PM me or Sea Fire. beerroger


    • Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
    14 November 2011, 00:41
    John Chalmers
    bartsche, Thank you for the info on the Blue Dot powder. Its new to me and will be another page in the book My local shop has it in stock and I like the Hornady Interlock Bullet that has worked for me at a 100grn. It will be interesting to see how the 55grn bullet works.
    I'll try it out next week at the range(closed today for Armistice Sunday salute)using your info as a guide. tu2

    Thanks to you all for the help and advice,I'll keep you posted.jc




    14 November 2011, 21:49
    Ghubert
    Check your cases with a torch before you seat the bullets to check for double charges if you use those bluedot loads.

    Remember, unlike with the H4895 those aren't reduced pressure loads necessarily, just reduced velocity ones.
    15 November 2011, 10:34
    John Chalmers
    Ghubert, Thanks, Ive since read up a bit on Blue Dot.
    I would only be loading a few ,individually and by hand for this project,but I gather you cant be too careful.

    Im going to try the H4895 as well. Let you know how it works out.jc




    20 November 2011, 22:53
    John Chalmers
    Ghubert Just back from the (short 35yds) range, having tried the reduced loads.H4895 19.0 /20 / and 21 grns. Using Hornady Interlock 100grn bullet.

    Checked out Hogdon info on 'reduced loads' with H4895.

    I was surprised at the almost non existent recoil. Will make a great load for youngsters starting, but very little difference in the crack compared with the normal load (31 /33 grns).

    Result is I'll stick with the normal load, which delivers the correct bullet velosity. +2,450fps, legal here for Deer, and the hell with the neighbors. Thanks for the info.jc




    21 November 2011, 14:38
    Ghubert
    quote:
    Originally posted by John Chalmers:
    Ghubert Just back from the (short 35yds) range, having tried the reduced loads.H4895 19.0 /20 / and 21 grns. Using Hornady Interlock 100grn bullet.

    Checked out Hogdon info on 'reduced loads' with H4895.

    I was surprised at the almost non existent recoil. Will make a great load for youngsters starting, but very little difference in the crack compared with the normal load (31 /33 grns).

    Result is I'll stick with the normal load, which delivers the correct bullet velosity. +2,450fps, legal here for Deer, and the hell with the neighbors. Thanks for the info.jc


    Hi John,

    Thanks for the update on your experiments.

    It may be worth trying the most accurate load in the field with a mate standing to one side of you and a little distance away.

    I say this as I also found little difference from the firing point but a friend confirmed that he could hear the difference between full and reduced loads. It may no be much, compared to the crack of the bullet and the thump of the strike, so I think you may be right.

    Have a look in the Euro forums for my thread on "seriously needing help", we have a good discussion there on quiet culling rifles for just the sort of scenario you describe.

    Anyway, I find that just one shot hardly disturbs anyone, if it wakes them up they have no idea what woke them usually.

    Best,

    Amir
    21 November 2011, 19:23
    243winxb
    Bullets above the speed of sound (1045 fps) all have the same crack, or sonic boom. Hodgdon Youth Load are low recoil but still crack, as you found out.